The 30th in a series of shows called "My Three Songs", where my guest selects three memorable songs and we discuss why those songs are meaningful to them.
This recording includes the full interview but does NOT include licensed music. To hear all episodes including the songs we discuss, please visit AaronsRadio.show.
The 30th in a series of shows called "My Three Songs", where my guest selects three memorable songs and we discuss why those songs are meaningful to them.
This recording includes the full interview but does NOT include licensed music. To hear all episodes including the songs we discuss, please visit AaronsRadio.show.
Coming to you almost live from Berkeley, California. It's Aaron's Radio Show with your host, Aaron Gobler.
Aaron Gobler:Thanks, Jake. And welcome, everybody to Episode 40. Welcome to My Three Songs where I play three special songs chosen by my guest, and we talk about why they chose each song. Today, my guest is Lisa Mazur. Lisa is a professional graphic designer and a great business colleague of mine from the San Francisco Bay Area. . And I have to mention that Lisa designed, the amazing Aaron's Radio Show logo, and I continue to get compliments on it. How are you today, Lisa?
Lisa Mazur:Oh, I'm awesome today, Aaron. Thanks for having me on the show.
Aaron Gobler:I'm really glad that you decided to be on the show. And I'm really psyched to talk to you about music. So what inspired you to be on the show?
Lisa Mazur:Well, I love talking about music. And you know, sometimes to the point where maybe some of my family members or friends don't enjoy talking about it as much as I do. So when you started your radio show, I think it was last year or the year before and asked me to design the graphics. I was like, "Oh my god, that's awesome. What an awesome idea." And I think you you mentioned that you were a radio ... you had a radio show in college?`
Aaron Gobler:I had a radio station in my parents basement.
Lisa Mazur:Oh, wow. That's even cooler.
Aaron Gobler:But I do wonder why I never actually participated in the radio station at my college, I went to Hofstra University. And they had a radio station. And it had an FM frequency and such, but I didn't do that, no.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah. But that's cool that you did it in the basement of your parents. That's, that's really fun.
Aaron Gobler.:What was I, like 10 or something like that. So I was maybe destined?
Lisa Mazur:Yes, exactly.
Aaron Gobler:But I did start this effort back in like, just actually right around now last year, because it was about March when I started recording episodes, but they were not these interview formats.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, it's evolved.
Aaron Gobler:But I firmly believe that having a good footing with your branding at the start of your business is really, really important. And it's a very worthwhile investment. And I really like the work you did.
Lisa Mazur:Well, it was fun creating that with you. And I agree. I mean, branding is, it's a huge thing to kind of keep your visual voice consistent. And so people recognize it. And it's like, easy, easy to reference and find. And that's what I do for clients. I work with a lot of businesses in the US, local and national, on creating their own brand identities and design. And that could include logos and websites and digital marketing, and in print marketing, and pretty much anything that's needed. So it's really fun. I love it. I've been doing it for like 28 years, I think at this point. Yeah.
Aaron Gobler:Yeah, I think because the human being is not the first thing that people encounter with these with businesses often it's the branding, and the writing, and in messaging and all that. So when someone sees a logo or styling or such, they can read into it, just the seriousness or the you know, investment. And that can speak a lot as compared to something that looks like you went to Staples. No offense, staples, you know so ...
Lisa Mazur:... and use their design services.
Aaron Gobler:Exactly. Yeah.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, I mean, I think there's so many ways that you can get design work done these days. I mean, obviously, a lot of people can do it themselves. You know, there's lots of apps and services online that you can create logos. But what I do is really create unique visual brand identities for businesses, and really give people an easy way to represent their business visually, across all platforms that they market through. So that's the goal and it's all about ease and ease. kind of clarity for the clients that they have to. And yeah, there's many businesses that come to me that don't have a really strong brand identity. And so my goal always with clients is to work with them to come up with something that feels genuine for them. That's eye catching, and again, can easily be used across all platforms.
Aaron Gobler:Yes, it's quite a skill and you've honed it in 28 years and made a successful business. So Lisa, let's switch over to music.
Lisa Mazur:Okay.
Aaron Gobler:We're both here to listen to your songs and talk about them. Before we get started, can you tell me how music fits into your life? Like, do you seek it out? Is it like in the background or the foreground each day?
Lisa Mazur:Music is always, always around. I mean, I think now especially I have two kids, one's almost 14, one's 11. So we're always playing music. And the nice thing is, they like kind of a really good range of music, you know, they like current stuff, as well as things from, you know, ranging from The Beatles all the way through the decades. So we have a lot of things that we we enjoy listening to together. It's so fun. I mean, having, you know, like a Spotify account, or just through the Alexa, you can feel like I want to listen to this song right now. And that's really fun. Because sometimes I'll reference songs to my kids, and I'll be like, Have you ever heard that? And I'm sort of just automatically, like, just put it on? That's awesome. Like that. How different is that, then, you know, when I grew up, it was, uh, albums and tapes, then it went to CDs. So there's kind of been a good evolution of how you can listen and the ease of it, right? And how you now you can just acquire these amazing playlists, just, it's just so easy. Now, instead of making a mixtape or something, right? Or a CD of your favorite songs that you give to your boyfriend or something.
Aaron Gobler:It's really remarkable when you when you do take a step back and think that information in general is at our fingertips. You know, the whole Library of Congress will fit in into our iPhone, as they say, or something, right? Get it through our iPhone. And so the the magic of being able to say, you know,"Alexa, play this song," or at the dinner table, when you're talking about something, quick, take out your phone and just like go into Apple Music and just find and just play that song. It's really kind of mind blowing when you think about what it was like before. The flip side is that it's taken away some of the magic of going to your album collection and taking out the album and taking out the you know, the record, putting it on the record player, and all those steps. And there was something about that, that was not a chore. Like we don't... none of us thought of that as a chore. So by just telling, you know, our Alexa to play a song for us, it's very convenient. But we never think oh, wow, that's so much easier than this or wow, I really hated it when I had to go do that. I think there's some trade offs there.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, well, there was nothing better than going and buying a record, right? The vinyl, I mean, and that our album cover art and like kind of, you know, like cracking that open. And sometimes, you know, they'd be like, the double albums and you'd open it up like a book. And it would be these amazing pictures and or, like sometimes they'd have the lyrics on the inside. And I just remember, I mean, I used to spend so much time, like, just looking at these album covers and the art. I think that was really the first my first real interest in graphic design too, was like really studying a lot of the album covers that I would get. I mean, I just remember sitting on you know, it's like in my basement on the floor, and like, putting a record on and just sitting there for like, hours studying. It was awesome.
Aaron Gobler:Yeah, so again, it's like, there's a there was a certain magic to that, but I think I still take the trade off of like, you know, just being able to just get a song to play because you'll have something stuck in your head and then you'll just say, you know, I gotta say to my phone and you know, Siri, play me this song or something.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, it's easy to research songs like learn that song. It was like, part of this, but I don't remember and it's, you know, it's such an easy way to find it. I did that a couple weeks ago with some with some obscure song by Jane Waveland. And she did a duet with this guy, it was so cool. These guy could just feel like oh my god, just put that on and then do some research on that through my phone.
Aaron Gobler:Yeah, I'm still traumatized by when I was a little kid and I went into record store. And there was a John Denver song that I liked. And I think it's called "Annie's Song," but I didn't know what it was called. Because of course, I don't think he says "Annie" anywhere in the song. So of course I didn't know. But I did ask one of the clerks. You know, I tried singing. And then he asked another person to come over. And I thought I was being like, "Oh, how cute is this kid?" I don't know how old I was. But I was old enough to feel like, this is not ... this was not that nice? Yeah, I could read into what was going on. So now with I mean, you know, with the internet for the last, you know, 20 something years, you've been able to pull a lyric up and generally find out what song it is. So yeah, it is pretty ... I think that's, that's really a pretty awesome and I think altogether, that's, it's, uh, you know, this information age, and I think that's all a better thing. And you can still, you know, you can still get vinyl and you can still play your old vinyl on a record player, there's still record players out there.
Lisa Mazur:Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know, my, my daughter is interested in getting vinyl now. Which I always I think it's so funny. She just bought her friend of vinyl for her birthday. And you know, yeah. So it is special, because it's almost like having like a piece of art. Right? Instead of it because digital, I mean, it's there. Yeah it's easy, of course, as we said but having like a physical item that's like, a memento, it's meaningful.
Aaron Gobler:I think also like a CD. I mean, there's some newfangled ... I mean, CDs are pretty old now. But there's, there's some devices where you can see the CD spinning, right, but it's spinning so fast, and it's just a blur. But most CD players, you can't even see the disc. But most record players that I've seen, you actually see the record turning. So it's a much more tactile, interactive kind of thing, where you're not just pushing a button, you're generally going to lift the needle, put it down, and when it gets to the end, you know, it's, you know, whatever. So, so there's definitely something even more than a tape. You know, the tape again, is like, the tape is inside, you know, the actual magnetic materials all inside, you can't see it so...
Lisa Mazur:And plus I think it degrades pretty quickly. Right. And also, it's, it feels a little more fragile. I mean, how many tapes have we all have that just stopped working? Or like got jammed or something, right? Yeah, I mean, you could get scratches on your albums, but I don't know the tapes were just, it didn't feel precious at all.
Aaron Gobler:So let's just jump right into your songs. The songs you chose were "This Must Be The Place" by the Talking Heads from 1982, "How Soon is Now" by the Smiths from 1984, and"Bittersweet Symphony" by The Verve from 1997. I know all these songs, this is a great selection. And I generally say that after I say I know all these songs, but I don't know. And I'm eager for us both to listen to these songs. And I'm interested in knowing why each of them is meaningful to you. So the first song on your list is,"This Must Be The Place" by the Talking Heads.
Aaron Gobler.:Lisa, this song is the last track on the"Speaking in Tongues" album. And I feel like the hits from that album catapulted the Talking Heads into a more pop category, while they still retain their very creative and quirky style. Now what inspired you to include this song on your list?
Lisa Mazur:Oh, well, still to this day, every time I hear it I'm just it's just such a beautiful, dreamy song. And I actually saw them perform, the Talking Heads perform this in 1983 it was like the first concert I ever went to. And I had no idea that I was seeing this, you know, sort of like it felt like it's like history in the making, right? I was like, I was 14 like first concert. But it was such a beautiful concert because it really it was almost like a performance from the beginning to the end. The way that the concert started was it just was one, I think it was like a boombox that was starting to play a song and it was all dark and it just like David Byrne came out and sang as a single person on the stage. And then the band members came in little by little. I mean that concert was amazing. And that was one of the songs that they played. It was like halfway through. And I think at that point, I can't remember if I had the album, the full album or not, but I know I went out and bought it. And listened to this song and the whole album over and over again, throughout my teenage years, and I know the song has been in a couple movies here and there, and it's just, it just endures. You know, it's like, yeah, I don't know. It's just so special and just beautiful. And David Byrne is such an amazing talent. And I have it, it was so funny ... when I was living in New York, I lived in New York for a long time before moving out to Berkeley in California. And I was, it was probably in like the early, maybe 2002 or so. And I was at an art opening that my friend worked at this gallery. And literally, David Byrne was there. And he was just standing there standing at the bar, like, and no one was talking to him. And I looked at him. I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna go talk to David Byrne. And all of a sudden, I got like, you know, I was starstruck and I was like,"Oh, my God, that's David Byrne." And then unfortunately, I didn't have the guts. I stared at him for a long time. And I was like, so close. It's so funny. But yeah, he's an amazing performer. And he's still performing to this day, constantly adapting and experimenting. He's super cool. I think the initial song that came out on this album was "Once in a Lifetime", and that was in the early MTV years. And I think their video for that was just like, so weird. And so cool. And I think that's what kind of hooked me and my friends. Oh, my God. And when I was in high school, we just loved the Talking Heads so much my, you know, in high school, they do like, talent shows and things that we had something called Battle of the Bands where people would like, you know, groups of friends would get together and be like, I'm gonna be Van Halen, or like Genesis or something, you know, and do like lip syncing. So my friends did the Talking Heads. And my one, my best friend, she dressed up as David Byrne in the big suit and danced around like that. It was awesome.
Aaron Gobler:I suddenly had this image of like, Kermit the Frog did did that, too. They had Kermit the Frog in this oversized thing.
Lisa Mazur:Hahahaha I'll have to look that up.
Aaron Gobler:"This is not my beautiful house." So that group is a lot of fun. And like I said, the videos are very inventive, "Burning Down the House." You know, the, the projection of David Byrne's face on the highway, as you know, moving on the highway. Just really remarkable stuff.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like art to me. I mean, it's really its performance. Right?
Aaron Gobler:Exactly. And you said, you know, at the start, you talked about how their concert was like a performance. So at first I'm thinking well every artist performs, but I think you're describing like, it's actually like a stage show. In some way. It's a full on performance, not just here are songs. But here is an actual performance. Well, thank you so much for including a talking head song. I don't think that anybody has yet. Neither has anybody included a song by the next group. And I'm so excited to include this song. And this is a song by The Smiths, and I think, arguably their most famous song, "How Soon is Now?"
Aaron Gobler.:Lisa, I never grow tired of the song. Johnny Marr's haunting guitar sound and Morrissey's dour lyrics make the song stand out. And I think it keeps it sounding intriguing today. And what inspired you to include this song on your list?
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, I think I agree. Like, when it came out, I was still a teenager. And it really felt like perfectly captured my teenage angst. And I remember, I think when I first heard it, and yeah, it's so like, mesmerizing, right? Like that riff in the beginning. The song was really, I mean, if you listen to the lyrics, the songs really about Morrissey and his extreme shyness, and his social awkwardness, which I think a lot of the Smith songs kind of have that theme. You know, it's like, how you're kind of don't fit in and is you know, and that's why as a teenager, I was like, oh, like, you know, like hearing like that. It just felt like oh, these are my people. But yeah, even to this day, like hearing that song, it's just like, you know, like, you can almost recognize in the first couple notes, right, it's so unique. But I mean, the interesting thing about I was, you know, like you reading about Morrissey, he's such an amazing performer. But he really has suffered, He suffered from really intense, like, social shyness, which is funny to think you're getting up on the stage, and performing in front of thousands of people. But like, on a day to day basis, he really had a lot of anxiety around, you know, having, talking to people, one to one and interacting.
Aaron Gobler:I mean, I don't know if he had stage fright. But, uh, performing is one thing, but like, I mean, performing in front of a lot of people. It's still kind of impersonal, in a sense, because it's this mass of people. I guess it could be overly personal because you're being very vulnerable to all of them. But it's different than having to go backstage and then have a conversation with another person. And definitely, if you listen to a lot of The Smiths' songs, there's a certain sense of humor in his songs as well. And the way he the way he words things, even on his his solo work in the last couple decades, still has his trademark humor, and wordplay.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, yeah, I know. It's, it's funny once you like, listen, I was listening to a song the other day with my daughter in the car. And I said, all these are the songs I listened to when I was your age, pretty much. And it was sort of... what was it? Let's see, it was it was definitely about like somebody struggling with suicide. And I'm like, wow, this is intense stuff. But that was it kind of brought to light. I think as a teenager, it just kind of made you feel like oh, like people, you know, like people are dealing with this stuff. Yeah. And you know, you're not alone. But I mean, there's definitely like a sense, like, if you listen to too much of The Smiths you kind of get a little depressed. That's why when one of my friends and I used to say, like, "Oh, you're listening to The Smith's a lot. Oh, I guess you're not feeling... maybe you're not that happy right now."
Aaron Gobler:I mean, he does songs about like, you know, if you and I were hit by a truck, or, you know, or ...
Lisa Mazur:Oh, yeah, that's the one, right.
Aaron Gobler:Or the "Girlfriend in a Coma", you know?
Lisa Mazur:Oh, yeah.
Aaron Gobler:Yeah. She's gonna make it you know, whatever. It's yeah, yeah.
Lisa Mazur:I know. And that's kind of funny, but very serious themes, right? Yeah.
Aaron Gobler:There's a song from an album he did called "I Am the Quarry", where he says,"close your eyes and think of someone you physically admire. And let me kiss you." So he's basically saying, you know, he doesn't feel like he's worthy of being kissed. And then he says... and then after he says that a few times, he says, "you open your eyes, and you see someone you physically despise." You know, so it's just this lyrically the way of flows and the sound of the yeah, just very, very smart.
Lisa Mazur:So now they're kind of like poets, you know? And that's why I just feel like these between like the Talking Heads, David Byrne, and Morrissey. It's just like, they're just so beyond. I mean, it's not I mean, not only is it good music, but the bands have made but like, the lyrics are so deep and meaningful. You know, it's just, it's not superficial at all.
Aaron Gobler:No, no, it is really not just writing for the sake of writing, but actually heartfelt and clever at the same time. It doesn't feel like it was just written to fill out an
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I also, this was another album. band, I also saw perform, actually, all three of these songs I've seen performed that I've chosen. So it was amazing, amazing performance I saw in Canada, I because I lived, I grew up around Buffalo, New York. And my friends and I like took a pilgrimage out to Canada to this place called Canada's Wonderland. They had a lot of good concerts out there. So we all went and saw them perform this.
Aaron Gobler:I'm jealous that you saw that you saw that. The closest that I've had is that Johnny Marr played in Berkeley about three years ago. So he played his own stuff, but he played a number of Smiths' songs, and he did play this. I thought, well, you know, he's not gonna sound like Morrissey, but he has a similar kind of accent sounds voice and so ...
Lisa Mazur:That'd be a great one, too.
Aaron Gobler:Yeah. Yeah. And that was you know, that was really so that was kind of cool cuz that's the closest I will have gotten to seeing The Smiths.
Lisa Mazur:It was really a interesting thing because I did a little research on the song and Johnny Marr said that, um, he was, there was an interview in Rolling Stone about the song"How Soon Is Now?" and he said he wanted the introduction to almost be as like potent and epic as "Leila", from Eric Clapton, and when it plays in a club or you know, any place a bar everyone knows what it is. And I definitely think that's true, right? It's like just the first couple notes. You totally know what, what songs coming on.
Aaron Gobler:There's nothing else that we've, we've heard that has that kind of trademark sound to it. Yeah, no, it's such a great song. Lisa, the last song on your list is"Bittersweet Symphony" by The Verve. Let's give that a listen, and we'll talk about it on the other side.
Aaron Gobler.:Lisa, this was such a huge hit when it came out. And, and I recently learned that The Verve had used a sample of an orchestral version of the Rolling Stones' song, "The Last Time" and it was tied up in all kinds of litigation and it's just recently that the Stones have agreed to then return royalties that they were keeping back to The Verve. They weren't making any money off the ... The Verve wasn't making any money off the song for years.
Lisa Mazur:I always think it's like the title of the song. It was like Paul, Paul Ashcroft, who's the lead singer of The Verve. It was like his bittersweet symphony, right? I mean if this went on forever. Like from '97 till 2019 they finally resolved that legal dispute. So yeah, he never had had any royalties anytime you hear that song on the radio or anywhere. It went to actually it was the Rolling ... I was just reading like, it was the Rolling Stones manager, the former manager that actually got all the royalties, but Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were credited as the songwriters. So it was it's super strange, right? A strange and long lasting legal dispute between them. Yeah,
Aaron Gobler.:I'm guessing that's not why you included the song in your list. So tell me what your thoughts are on the song.
Lisa Mazur:Oh, it was just like another ... I think all three songs that I've chosen. It just feels like there's like this epicness to it. It's like, you know, a symphony. Like this song. It just seems like a theme song to, you know, the 90s in a way. It just, it's just so beautiful. The lyrics are beautiful. The music's beautiful. And I did see him, Paul Ashcroft perform this. He was an opening act for Coldplay. I think I saw them in like 2005 and he was opening act. And I just as I arrived at the concert on Paul Ashcroft, was performing this, it was pretty cool.
Aaron Gobler.:So just like The Smiths' song, we heard the opening of this song is also recognizable. But yeah, it's definitely kind of dreamlike, little, you know, hypnotic, in it's sound.
Lisa Mazur:And now as I was thinking about all the songs that I chose, and I thought, wow, yeah, they have like, that kind of same sort of hypnotic-ness to it. Right? It's like very dreamy, like, right. Like other worlds, about life, like a whole other perception of life, in a way, right.
Aaron Gobler:So the Talking Head's song is kind of quirky and boppy and light, you know. The Smiths' song is very, not very dark, but it's dark feeling.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Aaron Gobler:And then this song is much more beautiful, and lilt-y and sweeping and soothing. But they all do have that kind of like, put you almost like, in a in a little hypnotic state by the end of the song.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah, I guess that's what I like. Yeah.
Aaron Gobler:We discovered that.
Lisa Mazur:Right. Yeah.
Aaron Gobler:So Lisa, is there anything else you'd like to share about your selections, like things you might have thought of while you were listening to them or something I didn't ask about?
Lisa Mazur:Music is just so important in our lives. And I mean, I don't know about for everybody, but there's definitely songs that when I hear them, I think specifically about certain things or, you know, about certain moments in my life or certain people. And it's just, you know, I guess there's the saying like "the soundtrack of your life", you know, yeah, um, yeah, but I think it's true, right? It's so influential to mood and where you are in your life sometimes and it's just fun to revisit the music that you've loved at certain points. as well, and one of my favorite things is, you know, like, as I've gotten older, and the music, like all three of these songs, you know, at one point, were considered alternative sort of, you know, or New Wave music or whatever in the 80s. And then sometimes I'll go into like the supermarket. And I'll hear these songs. And I'm like this is the funniest thing in the world, because at one point, these songs were considered really kind of radical, you know, like not mainstream, they got played on a lot of alternative music stations, college radio stations, they definitely were not like in the mainstream pop arena that were played over and over again on, you know, like, those stations. So when I hear these songs being played, as I said, like, as I'm browsing the pasta aisle, in my neighborhood supermarket, I just get a kick out of it.
Aaron Gobler:But it is kind of funny, like you're saying exactly like you hear you hear this Talking Head song, which is one kind of obscure track off the album. And you might hear that song at Trader Joe's. Yeah. And then you're like, whoa, like you said, that was like cutting edge stuff, you know, so many years ago, and now I'm listening to well, they know who the demographic is shopping in their stores.
Lisa Mazur:Yeah.
Aaron Gobler:It's not coincidence.
Lisa Mazur:No, no. That's awesome. It's always funny, but Well, Lisa, this has been a lot of fun. I really enjoy talking I always think about that too. Because I know. Okay, The Smiths were definitely alternative. And not a lot of people knew them in the 80s. I mean, you know, they're a British band, didn't get played a lot on mainstream US radio. But then I always think about when the music my parents grew up with, right, and with you and and really wonking out on on the music stuff. it's like, how, in late 60s, a lot of the music that was being made, was groundbreaking, right. And it's like, as we grew up, we were just like, Okay, this is just mainstream stuff. It's like what's always been around, but how music has that influence? Right? It's like, so I always think like, Okay, now my kids are growing up, what is that for them? Like, what kind of music has that influence on their lives and what's considered alternative or, you know, kind of not mainstream that maybe one Yeah it's so fun. And it's really hard to pick three. I day will be more mainstream and the evolution of that? It's really fun. It's just fun. Music is so, so fun to listen to, and the evolution of it and people's sampling old songs and you know, remastering them. It's just, it's always fascinating. I wish I had any musical talent, which I don't, to compose music, right. Music, you know, I have a lot of friends who are musicians, and it's like, oh, wow, that's such a cool, cool talent. mean, I could have picked 20 different songs, but for next time.
Aaron Gobler:Well, I like how we found that theme, you know, across the three of them. That doesn't always gel like that, but that seems pretty spot on. Yeah.
Lisa Mazur:Songs that are always... it's all always all three songs, I think are just classics.
Aaron Gobler:Yeah. So yes, yes, thank you for taking the time to put your list together. And thank you again for being my guest today. And I want to say to my listeners, if you want to be part of the show. Start by going to our website, Aaron's Radio dot show, and clicking on the My Three Songs button on the homepage. You can also sign up for our mailing list so you'll know immediately when a new episode is available. You can also find Aaron's radio show on your favorite podcast service, but the podcast episodes only include interviews and no licensed music. So until next time, keep your ears and mind open and let more music into your world.
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