Jake: 0:09

Coming to you almost live from Berkeley, California. It's Aaron's Radio Show, with your host, Aaron Gobler.

Aaron Gobler: 0:19

Thanks, Jake. And welcome, everybody to Episode 51. Welcome to My Three Songs, where I play three special songs chosen by my guest, and we talk about why they chose each song. Today, my guest is Gary Zenker. Gary learned about the show from a past guest, Amy Mendelson, who I know from high school. So welcome to the show. Gary, how are you today?

Gary Zenker: 1:12

I am excellent. How are you doing?

Aaron Gobler: 1:14

I'm doing great. It's, you know, I'm in Berkeley, California. The weather here today is amazing. But we had a heatwave, and it got up to maybe like 80 something. So that's how hot it gets here. That's right. So I grew up in Philly, where it's hot and humid and like ad would be like, Okay, that's just a cool day.

Gary Zenker: 1:34

And that's why I'm laughing because I'm not that far from Philly. So that's kind of a cool, nice day.

Aaron Gobler: 1:40

So Gary, I understand you're in marketing. But I also understand you are involved in several writers' groups. Can you talk for a few minutes about what you do?

Gary Zenker: 1:49

Sure. So from a marketing standpoint, I am a guy who does strategic marketing, and then the tactical implementations that go along with it. Sometimes I work for a company full-time, sometimes they contract me for a piece of the job. And so marketing a lot of times involves copywriting. And that copy is more direct. We're not writing novels, we're writing very short, concise pieces, whether it's advertising or marketing plans, or whatever. And so I've always; well I shouldn't say I've always been interested in writing I, in high school, I was kind of an artist, I thought I was until my best buddy Kevin was a better artist than I was ... I went "crap, I have something better to do, because he's better at this than I am." So I started writing. And he was also a writer, but at least I could come to his level. I started writing ... started on the high school newspaper, which was really a joke rag. And then in college started writing for a college newspaper. And I just realized I liked writing, which I didn't think I did, you know, when they're requiring you to write essays. Just scroll forward 23 years later, or something. And I had joined a writers' group because I was unemployed at the time, I wanted something to do, and really found being around other writers who were writing fiction was was so interesting and inspiring. So a year later, I decided to start my own writers' group, not because I was leaving them, I'm still attending them. But um, I've wanted to share and a slightly different perspective on how to run a group. And I did that. And then a year later, I started a second group, which and they're both about 40 minutes away, I'm kind of in the middle. And my goal was to give people a place where they could better their craft, a place where they could learn how to publish their work, and make friends because a lot of writers are introverts. And it's harder for them to be social, in some cases. And certainly writing is a solitary craft in a lot of cases. I've been doing that now for 14 or 15 years running the two groups. And it gives me great pleasure to give people a home. And I'm inspired every time I hear their stories. I'm not jealous, I'm envious, right? Because I go, they have such talent. And I look at my own stuff. And it makes me want to do better and write more. And I've had some success in publishing my work, I wanted to share that with them and give them a home, you know, marketing, the writing part it all. It's not a surprise, it all fits together.

Aaron Gobler: 4:20

And as you're describing that experience ... right before you actually said that you were inspired by the others. That's actually a thought that was popping into my mind is that when you're trying to help other creators, that part of I think what is so exciting about that is not just feeling good that you are helping them but actually then being inspired by them. That is a magical thing about working with other creators...

Gary Zenker: 4:47

... and there's no competition. Right because people don't just buy one book or one story right? readers read tons and tons of stuff. Like I said, I'm I'm envious of their talent. I'm not jealous ... because they feed me and give me inspiration to try things I've never tried before. One of my particular madnesses is that my groups, everyone writes a different genre. Right? I have a couple of mystery writers, I have a couple romance writers... And every time I hear someone write a good story, I go, could I do that in a thousand words ... could I write a really credible romance in a thousand words, or can I write and make you believe it's written by a woman instead of a man? All sorts of different things. So I am inspired every time I hear their stories and hear that need, and it's a gift, but I also get something out of it. So maybe it's not a purely... it's a little bit selfish.

Aaron Gobler: 5:43

And one expression you just made earlier, was I guess, in regards to a school newspaper? Yeah. You called it a"Joke Rag". So like, how do you define that? I know that I have a general idea of what that means. But was .. are you disparaging the publication?

Gary Zenker: 5:59

No, no, I was trying to I was trying to accurately describe it. I think in the beginning it turned out that it reported on things that typically a high school would report on. You report, a little on sports ... report a little bit on some classes or something, what was going on, I went to a private school, by the way, so my entire class had 50 people in it. But we didn't have large staffs, right. So whoever wanted to be on the newspaper could be on it. So people would submit articles and blah, blah, blah. And when those people graduated, and my friend Kevin, remember the multitalented guy, Kevin Hudson. So we ended up both being editors of the thing. And we both focused on funny writing. And by the way, I should add to that I should add to that, then, so no surprise that I ended up being editor of the humor magazine in college, right? Because straight through, when I heard your podcast, I was really interested, right? Because the words of a song to me, are every bit if not more important than the music itself. And I'm not diminishing the value of the music. Words, speak critically to me. And I'm driven by that. And so when your other guests talk about what it means to them, and then you play the song, and I can hear those words, and then I can tie that, to how that makes someone else feel, and an event or many events in their lives. That storytelling, right. But that's two stories ... it's the story of the song. It's also the story of how that song impacts a particular individual. And that to me is that storytelling is fascinating.

Aaron Gobler: 7:24

Mmm hmm. And then, and you've kind of started answering my next question, which was, you know, it's really rewarding for me to have guests that were inspired by others to be on the show. So I'm really curious, like, like, so what, what about the show? And maybe you've answered this already. You know, you heard an interview I did with friend of yours, ours. So what was the thing then that made you want to be on the show?

Gary Zenker: 8:02

Well, first, I had to go listen to four or five more. Right? Because I listen to a lot of True Crime podcasts. Okay, because they're, again, they're stories, and they're important stories. And they're about emotion and feeling both for the unfortunate victims of the crime, and also some other narrative going on. But I was listening to that. And I was just fascinated, because we all have songs that are part of our lives that become woven into the fabric of, of our being of who we are. And three, sometimes it's really hard to choose, right? Because when you have your guests on, and they talk about a particular song, I may have my own story for that song. But I'm very interested in hearing that other person's story. And we all like to do comparisons. Well, that's not my story. And I don't always have to talk about my story about that song, but it's very interesting to hear it. And your podcasts reminds me of my favorite things on NP ... stories that involve real people, and stories that are significant, but you would never otherwise hear them. Unless you tuned in because you don't get mind- reading ability to get in other people's brains and find out what's significant. So, I just ... after I listened to four or five of them, I went,

Aaron Gobler: 9:32

It's interesting, you use the word important because for the show to be compelling, the guest has to Oh, my God, I'd love to do this. I'm not sure I'm important really feel what they're talking about or what they're enough to put on the show. Right? That's the whole point is experiencing or have experienced or continue to experience when they hear these songs is very important to them. And so I don't have to be important, but maybe I've got a perspective that's, you know, connected to like a passion. Right? And if that someone else will get something out of so either learn you're passionate about something, it's it has a lot of something or feel something and and that's why I write and importance. So every guest Gary is important.

Gary Zenker: 9:56

Okay. Okay

Aaron Gobler: 9:57

And just being on the show makes you very that's why I talk.

Gary Zenker: 9:59

Oh, that's okay. I don't know what the co-pay is, important to me. So I know you didn't come on the show for some kind of like pop psychology or anything. but I'll take care of the co-pay. But realize your show is important too, right? Your show does something amazing for all of us. And it's, it tells us stories.

Aaron Gobler: 10:20

I really appreciate you being part of the canon of this, of this show. And I'm really eager to talk to you about three songs that you had chosen. But before we get to the list, can you tell me like how music fits into your life? We haven't really talked about music specifically, like do you seek it out? Is it usually in the foreground or background of each day?

Gary Zenker: 10:41

Yes, and yes. I think like most teenagers of my age, because I'm 60, I spent every single dime I had, and dimes, I didn't have right, going to the record store every week, saving up my half my lunch money and starving myself. So I could go buy an album every week, and amassed quite a large collection. And I'm kind of a pop boy. So it's narrow. It's only narrow in its genre. But I had a lot, a lot more than most people have. And even now, I think there's something about music that takes that becomes significantly important when you're in those teen years. I'm not quite ... I couldn't tell you psychologically, why it is. But I think a lot of us gravitate back to that music. Maybe we were more passionate than maybe we were more emotional than. I do have a 17 year old son. And I wonder because they don't listen to music the same way. They use Spotify, they pull up a song they want, they don't have to buy an album, I wonder in 25 or 30 years, if the music will have the same impact on him that it does on me. And I'm a little sad that it might not because they're listening and the way they access music is totally different. Right? I hope for him it is. But I can tell you that I go out every weekend yard sales. And at a buck apiece I buy everything I've ever heard of and some things that you haven't heard of. So I just you know, I've got speaker in the shower. Music is just critically critically important. But again, it's it's it's partially the lyrics. It's really important to me when I say music, I mean, it's the song as a whole.

Aaron Gobler: 12:29

I'm sure there's some songs that are kind of like bubblegum and you enjoy hearing them. And the lyrics may be like kind of a little bit of a throwaway. But it sounds like the ones that are really lyrically rich and musically intriguing, or just really hearty or robust. Those are just really rewarding to you, like a banquet.

Gary Zenker: 12:47

I think that's really accurate. Those are really rewarding to me. The craft, the ability for someone to be able to put that together. It's just phenomenal.

Aaron Gobler: 12:58

And to your thought about how people access music, this is something it's a recurring theme, in my interviews, is because most of my guests are in their 50s and up ... primarily. And so we've all kind of experienced, you know, going to the record store or hearing a song trying to figure out who it is going into the record store trying to find it, you know, getting home, opening it, putting it on the record on the record player, stereo, picking up the needle, putting it again, you know, making a tape or whatever, and that it's so much different for... I have a 21 year old and 25 year old .... daughters, And so, watching them, they both have certain Madonna songs they love or Beatles songs or other songs and I'm like how did you even like learn about that? Glee, you know, from Glee? Yeah, like the song "Loser" by Beck, they never would have heard it if it hadn't been like on Glee, right? So they hear about all these different ways. And then they can go find it. Like, immediately like while the show is playing, they can during a commercial break, or whatever you call whatever happens on on TV shows nowadays, you can, they might just go and look it up and hear it. So it's speeds up so fast the time between actually experiencing something for the first time and actually then procuring it and adding it ...

Gary Zenker: 14:19

Think of all the stuff that was out of press out of print, right because I'm gonna give you a ridiculous example ... Annette Funicello... love her! For some reason just loving that, but could you go buy her albums for a while? No, no, they're out of print. There's no demand for them. You could go to a used record store if you could find it. Right. And if someone ... if it was playable, now you just go on the internet and go, go find Annette singing surf songs and immediately you have access to all of them. So it is a wonderful time, but your interaction the way you interact with music. The way you have to get it. It's I don't want to say it's it's worse, right? It's a little less special. If you don't have to search it out. It's easier to get, but there was something magical about having to go search for something because it wasn't just handed to you.

Aaron Gobler: 15:05

Yeah, yeah. And I've talked to I've used that word magic a lot in other discussions. And yeah, I think that two different kinds of magic that is occurring, and that in our age group, you might think like, people are missing that the younger crowd is missing out on that experience of taking the plastic cellophane off a record album and that kind of stuff. And that, that the magic, the magic really now is they can they can hold their phone up to a speaker somewhere in a restaurant or a club or whatever, and find out what song that is, and then all of a sudden, like, go down that rabbit hole or into that, that tree of that, that genre of music or something? Yeah, it's a different kind of magic. And I think you're right, you know, it is a whole other generation, what is it going to be like? And and what will our will our kids be saying about that? You know, 20 years from now, what will they be saying about how the younger kids then are getting the music and maybe they're going to have a Bluetooth actual tooth in their mouth? And they can just be, you know, feeling you know ...

Gary Zenker: 16:08

I think there's a Gilligan's Island episode where he can access radio stations, because something happened with the fillings in his mouth.

Aaron Gobler: 16:15

And there we go. Yeah, it's, it's kind of like, you know, at one point, you were the kid on the lawn, and the old man came out and said, "Get off my lawn!", and then you've turned into the man saying,"Hey, kids, get off my lawn!"

Gary Zenker: 16:27

Oh, my God. I was just gonna say that. It's funny. I was just gonna say, "get off my lawn, you darn kids!" Right? And you're right. I hope I hope it's magic for everyone. He's not going to have the same experience. And the kids aren't gonna have the same experience I did. But I hope their experience is just as special in their own way. And that it doesn't diminish at all.

Aaron Gobler: 16:48

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a good jumping point for for going to your list. So the three songs you chose were "Oh Boy" by Buddy Holly from 1960,"Song to Jamie / Tangled Up Puppet" by Harry Chapin from 1979, and "The Kind of Love You Never Recover From" by Christine Lavin from 1999. I'm eager for both of us to listen to these songs. And I'm really interested in knowing like why each of them is meaningful to you so so let's start listening to your first song. "Oh Boy", by Buddy Holly

Gary Zenker: 17:34

Oh my god, that is a great song!

Aaron Gobler: 17:38

Yeah, why ... why don't you put that on your list? So Gary, you know, I'm gonna guess that most younger folks may recognize some of buddy Holly's songs but have like no idea how influential he was to the early rock and roll music sound and, and if you'll indulge me this bit of trivia, so this song was by Buddy Holly and his band, The Crickets, which was likely the main inspiration for The Beatles choosing their name, you know, having to do with insects and such. So I'm eager to know like, what inspired you to include this song on your list?

Gary Zenker: 18:11

So first of all, I'm going to I want to say that Buddy Holly, and apologies to anyone who wants to send me death threats, right? Way over Elvis, right? Just Elvis was a personality. But Buddy Holly wrote this incredible music, and then performed it. And if you would have had the camera on, you would have seen me dancing around playing air guitar. Right? Because I can't not do that. I don't ... something happened in my teens where I heard the song for the first time like, Oh my God, that's like the most perfect song ever. And then many years later, besides loving all of Buddy Holly stuff, I was lucky enough to adopt my son from Texas. And it was a complicated adoption. And when the adoption was finalized, the lawyer told me, you can take the boy out of Texas, but don't take Texas out of the boy, which is typical, right, Texas. That's how they feel. And I thought how am I going to honor that? And I thought, well, Buddy Holly was born in Lubbock, Texas, and that's where he's from, and so I thought, okay, so. And then I remembered the song and this is the song I used to sing to him from the day I held him until he stopped wanting to listen to me sing, right? This was my song for him. It was a playlist I had on CD, I would you know, whether I was in Texas or in Pennsylvania or whatever, whenever I was holding him I would sing this to him. And it just it just a joyous piece of who he is and who I am and it connected me and Texas and all of it together. Like that made the song doubly meaning right that song was just the best one of the best rock and roll songs ever heard. And then it became doubly meaningful when I had my son.

Aaron Gobler: 19:52

Hmm. Do you seek out Buddy Holly music specifically or this song when you want to get into a certain mindset?

Gary Zenker: 20:00

Do you know Linda Ronstadt covered a couple of Buddy Holly songs and she had, arguably one of the best voices in rock and roll ever. And her version is no, no worse than Buddy Holly's except there's something amazing about a singer- songwriter doing their own music and doing it really well. That's one of the CDs I carry in my car is Buddy Holly and the Crickets. Just, it just puts me in a really, really great frame of mind every single time. Although, you know, playing air guitar while you're driving is not recommended.

Aaron Gobler: 20:33

Unless you're driving maybe a Tesla or something. In "air guitar mode".

Gary Zenker: 20:37

I'd not recommend.

Aaron Gobler: 20:39

I'm guessing many listeners of this show know that Buddy Holly died at 23. And I think it was in 1959. And in an airplane crash ...

Gary Zenker: 20:45

Just tragic ...

Aaron Gobler: 20:47

Yeah. And it's one of those cases where you see someone who was so multi-talented, like you're describing, and like, he'd still be arguably still, you know, could still be alive today. Or even just you know, 20 years ago, he would have still been making music and what that would have been, you know what, what was lost in it losing him.

Gary Zenker: 21:08

And that makes some of his music all the more precious, right? It's when you compare him to Jerry Lewis or Chuck Berry, who had much longer careers or their careers were cut by other things. Yeah, it's just a tragedy that we lost him but he left a such a legacy of music. Yeah, just even at that ripe age of 23. He already inspired so many people.

Aaron Gobler: 21:29

Well, thank you so much for including that song on your list. This is the first Buddy Holly song, I believe that has been on that I've included on the show. But, you know, I think if you played his greatest hits for some younger folks, they'd be like, Oh, I recognize that. Right? I have heard that song or, you know, "Peggy Sue" or others that are that are very famous. So thanks. Thanks again for for telling me about that song. Now, I'd like to go to your next two songs. And I mentioned I say next two songs because they are in a much different feeling or milieu, say, then the Buddy Holly song with which is so boppy, and these songs are more contemplative and expressive in a different way. So the next song on your list is "Song to Jamie / Tangled Up Puppet" by Harry Chapin. So let's give that a listen. And we'll talk about on the other side. / / / / Gary, that's really an incredibly beautiful song. Harry Chapin was a prolific singer and songwriter. But you'd be hard-pressed to find folks who can name any other song but by him, either, besides his huge hit "Cat's in the Cradle", or the song "Taxi". So what inspired you to include this song on your list?

Gary Zenker: 22:51

In college, someone introduced me to his Greatest Hits Live. And I fell in love with the album. It is just phenomenal story. And, you know, the critics never liked Harry, they thought he was too, too everything right. But his audience loved him. And then someone said, you know, he's got another live album, I said, really. And it's it's one that today is not even on CD, right? It's somehow the licensing and everything got missed. And it's very, very hard to find. And it's called "Legends of the Lost and Found". And I got a copy and I played it and it became one of my all time favorite albums ever. And this song was on it. Harry shined when he was live. I mean, this studio stuff was great. But he, the audience just made him 100 times better. And this one, when I listened to now I'm a teenager, I'm I'm still 19 or 20. I'm still selfish, but it made me cry the first time I heard it, because I could feel the heartache. And even now I'm getting a little motion, I could feel the heartache of the parent, with the child who separates because I was in that stage where I was separating. And I was self aware enough to know what I was doing. But maybe not how it made my parents feel. And it's always been one of my favorites. And then I adopted my son and he's now 17 And he's going through that stage. And it is triply meaningful when you're the parent and you feel it and so everything that I thought was great about that song, I wasn't even close on understanding as I am now as I go through this stage with my son hoping that you know, eventually he comes back emotionally. And again, it's yeah, it's the music but it's it's the perfect lyrics. It's the perfect understanding. It's the ability of, of his ability to write in a way that can make other people feel and make me feel even though I didn't have the kid at that time. So being able to make someone feel something deeply inside is an incredible talent.

Aaron Gobler: 25:04

It's so much part of human nature just be experiencing things and think that you are having a solely a unique experience or very poignant or significant experience like you're describing in terms of raising a child. And then to have somebody so poetically, frame it and all these different types of metaphors of butterflies in a spiderweb, or a tangled up puppet that it just really resonates. Like, you know, you hear that and it's immediately kind of solidifies for you like, wow, this is a common experience. And wow, this is a profound experience and enough for someone to put it in into these beautiful words.

Gary Zenker: 25:47

So I really am going to owe you a co-pay after this podcast, aren't I ? Very good to psychoanalysis. Very good. Very good.

Aaron Gobler: 25:57

Yeah, I do. I do work with certain HMOs.

Gary Zenker: 26:02

That's good to know. But I would conclude by saying that anyone if this song or any of the other ones speak to you go find copies, go find used vinyl copies, or somehow"Legends of the Lost and Found", every story is as good as this one is. It's phenomenal.

Aaron Gobler: 26:20

The song "Cat's in the Cradle" is such like my kids know it. So it's like my kids, you know, my adult daughters. It's one of those songs that just is like, you know, continues on and the song"Taxi", which I just kind of rediscovered this morning when I was kind of just poking around, cuz I knew there were other songs and I knew by Harry Chapin, right, was also very popular song but not nearly as as wildly popular or wildly known as "Cat's in the Cradle", like, you know, you said there's so much more out there that one could listen to. And that applies to a lot of artists that there's so much good work that they've done. But all we really know about is there is the one that's been fed to us, even if it's a masterpiece like "Cats in the Cradle", right? That has its own whole storyline and message and allegory, metaphor and all that very powerful there to just like this song. So I, I really appreciate you adding this to your list. So I had never experienced the song before. But really just a beautiful song. Just a beautiful song.

Gary Zenker: 27:21

And, really, when I picked these three songs, Aaron, I, I love the fact about your show that usually I know one or two of the songs that someone picks, but I never know the third one, right? Or sometimes know two of them. And so when I saw, I could have picked 100, right, but I had to pick one someone may have heard and then one or two that maybe would be unusual that people wouldn't have but really impacted me emotionally. So that that would get shared, right. It's like here's something new.

Aaron Gobler: 27:51

Yeah, that's, that's a great segue into your third song, which is song I had never heard before. Excellent, excellent. The song is called"The Kind of Love You Never Recover From". And it's by Christine Lavin. So we're gonna listen to that now.

Gary Zenker: 28:15

Aaron, do I hear a tear running down your cheek?

Aaron Gobler: 28:24

Yeah, I when I had to move my keyboard out of the way. So it didn't short out the keyboard there. Gary, when I saw this on your list. I recognize the name Christine Lavin, but I recall it might have been like a satirical song that I heard by her in the 90s. I probably on WMMR, which was an album-oriented rock station in Philadelphia.

Gary Zenker: 28:44

Yeah, that song. You're thinking of a "Sensitive New Age Guys". It's from the same album that this song came from. A friend of mine. I mentioned my Kevin Hudson who's my, my high school buddy that I talked about who I did the newspaper stuff with my best friend in college, Andy Kanik. We both worked at the radio station. And we were the music coordinators. So we get records in and we pick songs and put them on carts, which were like single-track eight-tracks, right?

Aaron Gobler: 29:09

Yeah.

Gary Zenker: 29:09

And we would get all the music first. And he he was amazing, Andy knew songs that were going to be hit six months before they were hits. He comes in to my room because we lived in the same house and he handed me a CD, said I think you're gonna like this. I think he just come back from New York and because Christine's in New York, and he handed me this album and it immediately became like my favorite album at that time that I could listen to. And this song again. I'm I'm in college and I really don't know enough to have all these feelings. But I heard this song and it made me cry. Because I think we all have at any point in our life. We all have something that we don't think we'll ever recover from we can't get back and we can't recover from it. And I thought she just expressed this so perfectly. And then of course as you go on later in life, you realize well maybe that wasn't the person I'm never gonna recover from maybe there's another one. And you think about that person, they're replaced by someone else. And, and that definitely happened for me twice. I think, in terms of someone I thought I would never recover from. I have to tell you, Aaron, that as a writer, myself, these are the songs I wish I had written, that if I'm envious about anything, it's that I wish I had written these. When any writer can create an emotion in someone else, joy, regret, love, hope, anything, then you've done an amazing thing. And I think, you know, all three of the songs that I've mentioned have done that Christine Lavin does it all the time, she's she's the equivalent of Harry Chapin.

Aaron Gobler: 30:46

Thank you for those observations. And I listened to the song several times earlier in the last day or so after I saw this on your list, and then I listened to it again, very intensely, or intently just now. And, you know, I hear what you're saying about in the moment, or shortly after the moment of being involved with somebody that you might feel like, you'll never recover from breaking up with them. And then you might discover you, you know, you have been able to get over it. But I wrote down a note to myself, while I was listening to it just now that there can be people in your life who really do kind of, are still part of you. And that even as you get involved with somebody else, that you never actually recover maybe the wrong word, but you never actually forget that, or you can disengage from that. So maybe recover is, you know, you obviously have recovered from that. But, but there are some people who enter our life and maybe not even somebody who's romantic, but it's something that you had a connection with somebody that will always be there with you.

Gary Zenker: 31:56

And you're right, it may be work. For some people, the word may not be recovered. But I do think a lot of people have someone that they will continue to think back on and ask what if, even if they're not disappointed with their life? Yeah, but you still look back and go, but I wonder what would have happened if and you're right, it doesn't have to be in someone romantic love, it could be something else.

Aaron Gobler: 32:19

Yeah, we're all kind of jigsaw puzzles. And with all different shaped pieces, each of us and then once in a while, there will be somebody who kind of fits really well in some regard. And that that's hard to that that puzzle piece may still be in your puzzle. You know, it may be a whole puzzle, your your puzzle may be a whole puzzle of one particular picture. And that one piece in there fits but it looks different than the rest of the puzzle, but it fits.

Gary Zenker: 32:46

Right. Right. So Christine Lavin is another one of those songwriters that if someone hasn't heard of her ... every album has something that I just consider a diamond on it. Yeah. I don't love every song the same way. Right. But most mostly I like everything she does. But every album has one diamond, I just go. Okay, gosh, her ability to mix the words and the music together are just magical.

Aaron Gobler: 33:14

Well, thank you. Thanks, again for putting this on your list. Because I've been exposed just from the 30 ... now this from the 38th interview through ... to three times 38 episodes, certainly I know a lot of the songs that are in the show. But it's it's been great because I not really that great at just going and seeking out new stuff. So it's really fun and rewarding to be exposed to some stuff that I hadn't that hadn't heard before. So thank you again for that. And the Harry Chapin song, really, really beautiful testimonies to to the human condition as it relates to having to involve others in our lives, or how we deal with others in our lives.

Gary Zenker: 33:54

So what you're saying you got to have is what I get out of your podcast, right? Because I listen very closely, and I get experiences that I would never get for song, a songwriter or musician or whatever. And that's really cool. And then it doesn't stop there, right? Because you go well, if I like that so much. Maybe I go seeking out an album or two. Right, what else I can find, we give that gift to you. You give that gift to us.

Aaron Gobler: 34:17

Nice. Thank you for that observation. I do hope that the listeners seek out more music by the artists that we include in the show.

Gary Zenker: 34:25

I think sometimes, you know, an artist may have one hit or two hits. And for lots of reasons. It's different now than it was before. But that doesn't mean they don't have a wealth of music. That is just amazing. It's just waiting for us to find and discover and connect with and, you know, sometimes we we might listen to it at one eight or one point in our lives where it doesn't connect and then suddenly 10 years later, 20 years later has a lot of meaning to us.

Aaron Gobler: 34:52

I think it's one of those things that it's just the enormity of the music that's out there and that's being created at any one moment. It's overwhelming. And it's human nature probably to look at something and say that is just too much. And so I don't even know where to start. Almost like what we have with with what's available on on streaming nowadays is there's so much and I only have so much time. And and where do I start? And then you don't you get kind of paralyzed a little bit.

Gary Zenker: 35:24

Right. I agree. Yeah. It's sometimes it's hard to figure out where do you go to find the next great song? And sometimes it's just by accident.

Aaron Gobler: 35:33

Yeah, well, when people can go to Aaron's Radio Show, yeah, listen to three songs. And then and then just work from those as as the as a kernel for for their musical exploration.

Gary Zenker: 35:44

I think so.

Aaron Gobler: 35:46

Gary, is there anything else you'd like to share about your selections? Like things you thought about while you were listening to the songs or answers to questions I didn't ask you.

Gary Zenker: 35:55

Oh, you know, there's ten other songs. That's the thing is, there's ten other songs as I'm listening, go, Oh, I wish other people could hear this. Oh, I wish people could hear this. But three makes it special, right? It gives us time to talk a little in depth about each one instead of just having a playlist. So yes, that's the only thing. Oh, I wish I could expose people to all this great music that I've heard.

Aaron Gobler: 36:20

Well, Gary, this has been a great conversation. I often say the conversations I have are a lot of fun. And I kind of think in my head about how often I laughed, and I don't, there wasn't a whole lot of laughter. But I feel like for me a fulfilling and rewarding conversation. And it was a real, real joy to to talk to you today. And I really appreciate you taking the time out to to be on the show.

Gary Zenker: 36:45

Oh, I thank you. And I thank you for doing the podcast because it is it continually teaches me and gives me it continues to give me direction for going to find new, amazing music. So I thank you for the endless but not just that. It tells me the stories that other people have. And that is as amazing as the music itself. So I thank you.

Aaron Gobler: 37:07

Great. Great. Yeah, I'm so delighted that you, you chose to be on the show. And that's a great segue to ask my listeners. If you want to be part of the show, start by going to our website, Aaron's Radio dot Show and clicking on the My Three Songs button on the homepage. You can also sign up for our mailing list, so you'll know immediately when a new episode is available. You can also find Aaron's radio show on your favorite podcast service. But the podcast episodes only include interviews and no licensed music.

Aaron Gobler.: 37:40

Before we wrap up this episode, I wanted to let you know of an experimental format we have for the Radio Show called Dedications. If you're familiar with Casey Kasem's Top 40 show, he would read a dedication written by one listener with hopes that it would reach the ears of another listener, and then he would play the song. I'm hoping to recapture some of that magic. So I'm asking you, if you have a dedication you'd like to make to somebody. Please go to Aaron's Radio dot Show slash Dedications to submit yours. Once I receive a few I'll begin making episodes based on those dedications.

Aaron Gobler: 38:18

So until next time, keep your ears and mind open and let more music into your world.

Female voice: 38:39

You're listening to Aaron's Radio Show.