Jake: 0:09

Coming to you almost live from Berkeley, California, It's Aaron's Radio Show with your host, Aaron Gobler.

Aaron Gobler: 0:19

Thanks, Jake. And welcome, everybody to Episode 65. Welcome to My Three Songs where I play three special songs chosen by my guest, and we talk about why they chose each song. Today, my guest is David Toman. David is a business colleague of mine in the San Francisco Bay Area, and he's a photographer and videographer. Welcome to the show, David. How are you today?

David Toman: 1:11

Doing great, Aaron. Thanks for having me.

Aaron Gobler: 1:14

Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm really delighted that you, you asked to be on the show. What inspired you to be on the show?

David Toman: 1:19

Well, I've had a few listens to some of your episodes. First of all, I love the show. And I first became aware of your show and some of my friends were guests on your show. And I had a listen to a few episodes. So I followed you on Instagram. And I noticed that Eric Bazilian of The Hooters was one of your guests, and The Hooters had been one of my guilty pleasures, since "Amore" came out. So I listened to that show. And I thought, Oh, what a cool concept, and got really into listening to it. So that's the first thing. But as far as my relationship with music is, it's always been mostly a private enjoyment or pursuit for me. And that goes back to playing piano and discovering I could just play songs all day. And it was considered practice. It was considered like doing my homework. And it wasn't a guilty pleasure or anything of the sort it was, it was just, it was doing something positive in my parents eyes, who made me take piano lessons. So that was the first time I really discovered my relationship to music being so personal and private. And I could always enjoy music no matter what kind of situation I was in. I remember painting my bedroom when I was, well, I was the right age so that the only LPs I had to play on my little turntable were Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell" and Boston's first album. So imagine that, just day after day me in my room at the age of 10 or 11., painting my room and enjoying it instead of it being a chore. So it was it was a pleasure.

Aaron Gobler: 3:03

Were you painting like the Boston logo or something on your wall? Or what were you doing? Was the painting an integral part of the music? Or just the music was just an integral part of just the painting experience?

David Toman: 3:13

No, the music was just the soundtrack to paint a room a boring set of colors.

Aaron Gobler: 3:18

Okay, okay.

David Toman: 3:21

The part two of that answer is the transformative power of music. And I can look back at so many times in my life, including painting my room where listening to music takes me back to a specific time or place. I can recall sights and smells. I remember exactly who I was with, and what it was like to hear that song. And the first time I can picture the first time I heard "Sultans of Swing" by Dire Straits, I was the little brat brother of my older sister who was a very attractive, maturing blonde and very popular with the boys. And they were all trying to hit on her. And this one local boy was trying to get her in his car. And I came with the bargain. So we went for a drive. And in his I think it was even a station wagon. It wasn't the most awesome car. But he impressed me more than my sister when we went out for a drive to the beach and he was drumming with "Sultans of Swing" perfectly on the steering wheel. And I was like, Wow, I like this guy. Yeah, I remember that every single time I hear that song takes me back to the to hearing it. The first time in the backseat of that station wagon when I came as part of the bargain with my with my pretty sister.

Aaron Gobler: 4:39

It's really remarkable how music can transport you immediately. And I've met, I've talked with other guests on the show about it. I have a guest who said that she was on a field trip when she was younger and she associates that with "Brown Eyed Girl" by Van Morrison. And that she said she can smell the field when she hears that song. So it's, it's just remarkable how just hearing a song like, you know, can trigger like you're saying these memories. And I think I have to go look this quote up, but I think Paul McCartney made some kind of reference to an adhesion, or a stickiness, kind of like of certain things to each other. And that music is, is very, can very easily adhere to different times of your life. But yeah, it's really remarkable how powerful music is in that way.

David Toman: 5:28

Yeah, it does. It does it every time even songs from recent memory that aren't part of my, let's say, my formative years. They do they have the same power. It's great. It's why we keep coming back to it all the time.

Aaron Gobler: 5:42

Yeah. Yeah. David, I believe you're doing some podcast work. And that's obviously a trade that is near and dear to my heart. What can you tell me about your current project?

David Toman: 5:50

Thanks for asking Aaron and sorry to intrude on your chosen...

Aaron Gobler: 5:56

No, please. Yeah.

David Toman: 5:58

I am a photographer in my profession, a photographer

Aaron Gobler: 6:01

So you're synthesizing the photography and videographer. And so the podcast really grew out of a portrait project that I tried to launch before the malarkey of 2020. Everything that's taken us to. And so what it involves, I have a background as an athlete, as well, I was a very serious component with the podcast? Or is it more that the podcast was Ironman triathlete many years ago, and kind of lost my way. And I lost my mojo. And so in trying to get reinspired, I thought I would launch a portrait project with people who are over the age of 50, but managing to remain very active, whether they're competitive athletes, or they just go to their swim team practices every morning at O-dark-30. And so I inspired by what you're discovering as you're creating got volunteers to sign up for a studio portrait and action portrait. That was the bargain. And then I thought, well, I have these people. They're going to be in my studio, I should interview them. T`hat would inspire even more people. And so the the photo essay? now it's a multimedia project with a podcast at the center.

David Toman: 7:17

I would say that the podcast was inspired by who those people are and photography wasn't enough. But the podcast is also another... it's another way of reaching people who might not have seen the photography. So I think they both feed on each other.

Aaron Gobler: 7:42

Awesome. Yeah. I'm excited to see what comes out of this project. Have you actually recorded some some podcasts already, or is this something that's still in, in production?

David Toman: 7:53

I've recorded one. I have scheduled guests for next week for two and I plan to release the first episode once I have about three in the can. My first guest was a tap dancer, and he's very inspiring.

Aaron Gobler: 8:06

Well, I'd be delighted to link to your podcast, from the liner notes for this episode, Episode 65.

David Toman: 8:14

That'd be great.

Aaron Gobler: 8:15

And best of luck on that. So David, before we jump into your song list, I understand you spent about half your life living abroad. I can't say that really for any of the other guests I've had on. So can you tell me something about that experience and especially like how it relates to your love of music?

David Toman: 8:29

Sure. After college, I took off and I went straight to Taiwan. And I had majored in East Asian Studies and taken a very intensive Chinese ... Mandarin Chinese classes throughout my four years of college and I spent a semester abroad in Beijing, China, as well as a summer intensive at Middlebury College. And so I thought I knew Chinese when I got to Taiwan. I originally went to Taiwan to for an intensive program, a one-year intensive program at National Taiwan University. So before school started, I still need to pay my rent. So although I had sworn to never teach English, like the stereotypical foreigner in any Asian country, I had to teach English for a few months, while I got my feet wet in the society and everything else. And before I found another type of job, and I found myself on many public buses, going from bus to bus and English teaching job to English teaching job on buses and having a walk from the bus stops to the buildings that I was teaching in. And oftentimes in the rain, and I had a Walkman with me, or yeah, before a Discman, I had a tape of "Rain Dogs" by Tom Waits, and that was the ultimate soundtrack for the situation in Taiwan and sometimes I would find myself walking on the street in this very alien, at that time, environment, just laughing to myself sometimes even laughing out loud at the absurdity of everything. And it was sometimes the lyrics that were coming through my ears and, and I think that was part of really what solidified my relationship with music sometimes because I was able to draw back on my, my Western upbringing. And I could always retreat no matter what kind of situation I was in, in Taiwan when it was an alien environment. To me, it wasn't for all 27 years, obviously. But I could always retreat back into music and get back in touch with some things that I loved and experiences. And that transformative power would take me back to the things that I loved from my past.

Aaron Gobler: 10:51

So was it more like comfort food? Or is it more just like, yeah, how would you describe it? In that case?

David Toman: 10:56

It was almost like the beat that that kept me going, the rhythm that I, that I moved to. And that was definitely the case, when I got into triathlon, and I was training like crazy, I would be on my bicycle for three or four hours a day, or running for at least an hour a day. And so I would listen to music for much of that time. So that gave me a great chance to explore so much music and also revisit the 80s many times.

Aaron Gobler: 11:28

Right. So it was less of a comfort food thing, but more of just like getting you into a certain vibration, or a certain mood or mode, you know, for what you were doing that day or what you were doing at that time.

David Toman: 11:40

Yeah, I would say that's, that's, that's what it does. Like it's stoking stoking my, my engine a lot of the times.

Aaron Gobler: 11:46

Nice, nice, very cool. And I guess that's something about music or art in general, right? You can just, you can have it with you. Or, you know, wherever you are, at any particular time in your life. So you're over, you're overseas, you're very far from where you grew up. But yet you have all this music, and it's kind of there for you. And that's very accessible. You're talking, you had to use a Walkman. So you had to get tapes of things. Were you able to get tapes of of stuff that you wanted to hear while you were in Taiwan?

David Toman: 12:16

At first, I just arrived in Taiwan, I literally had like maybe two cassette tapes, and I remember I had a Discman with probably six CDs.

Aaron Gobler: 12:25

Okay.

David Toman: 12:26

And I can probably recall which ones they were, they were all jazz CDs, actually. But Taiwan was really changing at that time and record stores blossomed. And so once I switched to all portable CDs, that was not a problem, although sometimes you'd find a gem that you wouldn't be otherwise able to find. And then eventually the the iPod came out and changed everything because everything became so much more portable.

Aaron Gobler: 12:51

Thank you for sharing those stories. I appreciate that. So David, we're here to talk about three songs and the songs you chose were"Bad" by U2 from 1984. "Love Song" by Bruce Cockburn from 1971. And "The Killing Moon" by Echo and the Bunnymen from 1984. I'm eager for us to listen to these songs together and then to discuss the significance of each song to you. So let's jump into the first song which is "Bad" by a U2.

Aaron Gobler.: 13:23

David, I'm gonna guess a lot of listeners are having an epiphany right now like they thought the song was called "Wide Awake" when it's actually called "Bad." And I don't even think that Bono actually says the word "bad" anywhere in the song. In any case, it's certainly one of U2's most beautiful songs. What inspired you to include this song on your list?

David Toman: 13:50

Well, part of it is just my relationship with U2, which is they're a part of my, I would say my budding obsession with music as a high school kid. And I recall being able to finally... I had my, I call it my senior license. So when I graduated from having a learner's permit, as a driver, I got my license when I was 16. And when I was 17, I was able to drive after, essentially after dark and that enabled me to use my meager savings from mowing my grandmother's lawn and my neighbor's lawn, that sort of thing. And every once in a while, take off and go to a concert in the New York, New Jersey, Connecticut tri-state area that I grew up. I was already a huge U2 fan after seeing them on MTV and it was actually the "Gloria" video where they just came out of nowhere like aliens and that's what really struck me, is there really is like, we all look the same. We're all European looking. But they sounded different to me, they didn't sound American. They were from outer space as far as I was concerned. On this barge, in this grungy looking harbor, and Bono in that video looked like he had algae growing on his leather jacket and but the music just hit me, especially the Edge's guitar. And that piercing sound that the, the voice that Bano had in that song. So they gripped me from that point on. And so that was it, I was hooked, especially with the Red Rocks concert, I think that's where they really came out to the big time. And that was their Black Friday, actually, as an aside that started making money after that tour after that video came out. So at the age of 17, in 1984, they were, they were on tour of the "Unforgettable Fire" tour. And I was obsessed with that album, and not having a ticket, me and my best friend -- Hi, Peter, if you're listening, I'm sending you the link -- we got in my car, and we took off to Hartford, Connecticut and went to that concert. U2 was a huge part of my... I really think it was part of my growing up. And it's been more than that. They've been a part of my life ever since. And another aspect is musically, this song taught me lessons that I'd never really thought about being sheltered in the suburbs of New York, and never having to deal with people that had such horrible conditions, or maybe no vision for the future and no hope for the future that they would retreat into drug addiction and actually have drugs available on the streets and, and in their lives at a very young age. And so when Bono got on the stage and he said this is a song about a friend who was given so much heroin on his 21st birthday that it killed him. That just shook me and it really brought the meaning of the song into focus. And that's where the title "Bad" comes in. And you know, "True colors fly in blue and black," which is black and blue, just reversed to be from the bruises on your arm, the needle tracks. But then he says "I'm wide awake" and as a 17 year-old blossoming into the world, that statement really resonated with me. Yeah, and then U2 really showed their true, to quote the song, U2 really showed their true colors and what a brilliant live band they were when they took the studio version from "The Unforgettable Fire," which they recorded at Slane Castle in Ireland. And they added so much to it. And their live performances from the "Wide Awake in America" EP with the ringing keyboards, that repetitive ringing keyboards. And then Larry Mullen's kind of martial drumbeat that comes through. It's like a succession from "Sunday Bloody Sunday" and it really propels everything forward. And then that really took on extra energy in their live shows. And then it really reached a crescendo at Live Aid where they could, The Edge could just keep ringing that guitar and the keyboards provided that cushion in the background and Bono just took off with that. And that was really, their coming out to the whole world.

Aaron Gobler: 18:24

I believe that live performances really show the mettle of a band, and their professionalism and skill. And these are all people all these performers are all incredibly talented on their own. And when you bring them all together, like that, and then you're saying in live a performance, it's just it's a performance, but it's like an experience, it's a they may never perform exactly the same way the same song. So it can be a unique experience. And it was just a brilliant, brilliant performance and experience.

David Toman: 18:56

Bono would definitely not jump into the audience in the exact same way he was really trying to make friends. I think he has... he had a little bit of insecurity at the time where you had to meet meet every single member of the audience during one song.

Aaron Gobler: 19:09

Okay. Well, David, thanks for including that song. I I believe that's the first U2 song that's been on someone's list. So I'm really delighted to have U2 on this show. The next song on your list is "Love Song" by Bruce Cockburn. So let's give that a listen. And we'll talk about it on the other side.

Aaron Gobler.: 19:31

That's a beautiful song, very simple and brief. I was introduced to Cockburn's music back when I was in college in the 80s by my roommate Jason Staal, who was actually guest on the show months ago. You know, I know several Cockburn tunes, mostly like the more famous ones, but I'm not familiar with this particular one. Why did you choose to add this tune to your list?

David Toman: 20:01

It's really a far cry from "If I Had a Rocket Launcher," isn't it?

Aaron Gobler: 20:05

Yeah. Or talking about the International Monetary

David Toman: 20:10

Yeah. "Kicking at the darkness till it bleeds Fund. daylight."

Aaron Gobler: 20:14

Yeah, exactly.

David Toman: 20:15

I was introduced to this song in college myself by one of the most graceful people I've ever met. And I associate the song with that experience. But the song just transports me every time I hear it, I have to stop. I can't. It's something that could never be background music. I actually, as we were listening to it, I had my head in my hands. And I was just concentrating and enjoying the music. It just transports me every time it hits me in the heart I can, I can feel the ache. There's something about it that just speaks to me. And it's the it's mostly the melody the way Cockburn sings. And it just touches me it touches me the way Jeff Buckley's music touches me. And I can't take it lightly. Every time I listen to the song, I have to be prepared to listen to it. Because like I said, it's not something I can listen to casually, I have to allow it to pick me up and take me somewhere and make me feel something. And it's the same when I'm, I don't just casually put on Jeff Buckley's music, I have to be in the mood to be very present and taken somewhere because it touches me so deeply. And this song is the same, it touches me that way is just so beautiful and so gorgeous. Just on the surface, and then I also just love the way the lyrics, they're not very explicit, I wouldn't say it's a love song to a specific person. And when you look at the lyrics, he's he's speaking to somebody or some thing that is in him. And then he is in that someone or something as well. And it could just be like a connection or an energy. And I've, I've even heard that it was supposed to be a devotion to Jesus or God. But I haven't seen corroboration of that. But just, and he, there is an eternal stirring here that"You shine across my time." And then no matter even though I have my eyes closed, "Though my eyes be closed forever, still, I would find you." So it's a devotion in a way and I don't find it in a religion in a religious sense. It's just, it's about a very deep love, so I can understand why he would call it"Love Song." It's the title and the song are so simple and beautiful on the surface, but they touch on very deep devotion and inspiration. That's why I chose it.

Aaron Gobler: 23:06

Yeah, something very incredible about art, and that even in visual art, the artists creates it with a certain intent and feeling and vibration. But how you see it or how you use it or how how it vibrates with you may be completely different. And like you're saying, you know, we're not exactly sure what Cockburn was basing the song around. But it's kind of a template for you to kind of apply to in your own way. But as you're also, as you started talking about this, I'm thinking, you know, like the U2 song is something you might just hear, you may just turn on the radio today, or on some playlists, some, you know, Pandora or something, you might, it may just end up there and you hear it. But the song by Cockburn seems like something you would need to seek out, like you'd actually have to purposely play that song. And where the U2 may just come up and you hear it and then it brings back all these memories. It sounds... I feel like the Bruce Cockburn song is a little more obscure and you'd actually have to seek it out. Do you seek it out and play it? Or is it on a playlist that would normally just like all of a sudden it shows up in your ears?

David Toman: 24:14

No, it never shows up. And I know similar to you, people know Bruce Cockburn, especially Canadians, eh? But but it's not a well known song of his and it's, I wouldn't have... I might have skipped over it. I was familiar with you know, I was kind of rebellious, in my mind, college student getting into Bruce Cockburn when I was there and I skipped over his very early music and that album from 1971 is super old, it's already over 50 years old. Believe it or not. It's crazy. And yeah, so I have to seek it out. I have to go. It's you can't even find it... I don't think you can find on YouTube except maybe a live performance that's really poorly recorded. Yeah. So it's, it's something I have to seek out. And I don't know, it was serendipity that I was sitting in a dorm room and somebody played it. And that was it, it touched me forever.

Aaron Gobler: 25:17

Wow. Nice. It's a beautiful song. Thank you for including that on your list. That's an example of like, I, I think for a lot of people, or maybe almost everybody or everybody listening may never have heard that song before. And now they get to hear it. And I'm hoping some people explore some other Bruce Cockburn music and like we were talking about at the very top there is like, he's got quite a variety of themes that he sings about in the songs. And there are probably some songs that people of our age will, if they went and sought out his, his library of music would be like, Oh, that song's by him. I've heard that song before, I didn't know it was Bruce Cockburn. Kind of a low key performer in that regard.

David Toman: 25:57

Yeah, I agree. It's really my pleasure to be able to introduce that song to people because I believe it will, anybody that hears it, will for sure they will recognize its beauty and then anything beyond that the surface beauty will be a bonus. I hope it resonates.

Aaron Gobler: 26:14

Thank you again for including that, David. The last song on your list is "The Killing Moon" by Echo and the Bunnymen and I have to say when I first heard that group name back when MTV was on and such I just didn't know what to make of it. It seems very silly, but they apparently are very talented band. Let's give a listen to "The Killing Moon" from 1984.

Aaron Gobler.: 26:35

David, I'd heard this song before. But honestly the two songs I associate with Echo and the Bunnymen are "The Cutter," and especially "Lips Like Sugar," which which definitely appears on like every single 80s collection album. Now I also believe that there probably is some kind of backstory to this particular song, "The Killing Moon." What inspired you to include this song on your list? And like what other information can you give me about the song?

David Toman: 27:12

Well, I think it's just a very unusual song. It's not your typical rock song the way it starts with that zither like, I think it was actually they hired maybe an Indian, it was maybe tangentially related to the fact that the Bunnymen come from Liverpool and The Beatles got into all that. You know, Ravi Shankar, sitars stuff. I don't even know if that was conscious on their part, but they are from Liverpool and I like to think of them as, as the best band that came out of Liverpool not being a huge Beatles fan myself. No offense to Beatles fans. I just find it it's a really haunting song for me. So once again, going back to the way it makes me feel and then digging deeper into the lyrics. And the backstory of the song is just, very briefly, I understand that Ian McCulloch, the lead singer and songwriter for the Echo and the Bunnymen woke up one day and he said the song wrote itself it was in his dream. And so he likes to say he, he gives God a co-writing credit. Because he woke up and it was written, and he just basically had to sit down and, and write it down on paper. And then it also has, it just has so many moments of musical brilliance including that outro. If you if you listen to the outro while McCulloch is doing his "la la la's", the guitar player is playing a brilliant outro solo that doesn't get in the way of the song. It keeps repelling it on and just raising the level without raising the volume. Staying out of the way of the lead singers and some of the lyrics just kill me. No pun intended because my interpretation of the song is it's really kind of about the Grim Reaper coming and waiting for you. And that it's really predestination we're all going to die and so, it's you know, fate up against your will no matter what he you'll give yourself to him and whether it's... it could be fate in your life, but it could be the fate of eventually shedding this mortal coil. The lyrics that really get me are "Your lips, a magic world. Your sky, all hung with jewels. The Killing Moon will come too soon." I love"Your sky, all hung with jewels." Just just there's something it's like a fatal attraction with maybe even like the kiss of the wolf or something like that. You cruelly kissed me and then your lips were a magic world and the sky was... it was a magic moment but it's a deadly thing that he's talking about. It's very it's deadly serious when you get down to it. It sounds so foreign sometimes. And then like who would put that kind of jangly guitar at the beginning of a rock and roll song. It's not"Lips Like Sugar" which is..."Lips Like Sugar" is a great song. And I think of it is like the "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" devotion to cocaine.

Aaron Gobler: 30:21

But it's more bubblegum than it sounds.

David Toman: 30:22

It is, it is.

Aaron Gobler: 30:26

It's a true 80s is kind of bop, more of an upbeat song if you... I don't know enough of the Echo and the Bunnymen of their catalogue but all of these songs are... seem very kind of, not completely dark, but definitely dour or very off-key in their sounds.

David Toman: 30:46

Yeah, that definitely runs through them. They are a very minor key dark dissonant. And they worked that into pop music, if you can call them pop music. They never made the real mainstream, although"Being on the Dancing Horses," I believe was on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. So they they were able to reach the big time that way. And then it was "Lips Like Sugar" got a lot of airplay and still does. It's probably got like a billion Spotify listens, which would be nice to know. But yeah, they're not a huge selling band. Although they're still around, I actually had the pleasure of attending a concert by Echo and the Bunnymen at the Fox Theater in Oakland just a couple months ago, and they were legit, still really good. One other aspect about this song is it really encapsulates how I sometimes respond to music, which is I oftentimes have a very visceral response to a song, the first time I hear it, or the first several times I hear it, and it might not be positive. And I think I'm an analytical person in a way and whether I like it or not, there's something about it that strikes me and I want to understand I want to get to the bottom of it. In this song, the way it comes out with that dissonant out of key sounding clanging guitar that struck me and I don't recall exactly, but I don't think it was super appealing to me at the time. And I've, I've had that kind of experience with, with songs in the past where something actually drove me nuts upon my first several hearings of it, but eventually I came to make peace with it, and have and even really love, what it's all about and become a big admirer of what it's about. And so that is the kind of experience I had with this song. It struck me as very odd and unusual, and maybe something that I didn't want to befriend, but eventually it got into me.

Aaron Gobler: 32:53

I think that's pretty common, the experience of, at least for me, I've experienced where I'll, like you said, I'll hear a song, and it'll seem very different. But then as I listened to it more, I'm like, I appreciate that more. And I actually can listen to the song a lot more often than something that's more bubblegum, which sounds really great when you first hear it, but then you can tire of it pretty fast. I use that bubble gum, you know, it gets stale after a little bit, but a lot of some of the songs just will, will remain fresh.

David Toman: 33:21

Yeah, I think we can contrast that with with some of the songs that we might be hearing these days, there's, there's definitely, if I may be so bold as to assert there's more depth to the music, even a lot of the pop from the 80s. There's, there's a bit more depth there that you can dig into and peel that onion and get into versus something like you know, Ed Sheeran, "The Shape of You," it's on the surface, it's it's catchy. And then yeah, and then he's just talking about basically picking up a chick at the bar and it doesn't... there's no other... there's no onion to peel with that song.

Aaron Gobler: 33:56

No, that's a great, great kind of a analogy and metaphor. I like that. So David, is there anything else you'd like to share about your selections, like things to be thought of while we were playing them? Or questions I didn't ask you. I'll just say I did notice the two of your songs were from 1984. So maybe there's some significance there.

David Toman: 34:15

Bingo. Yeah, we actually went from 1984 to 1971. And then went back, did a 180 back to 1984. Which, yeah, yeah. And I didn't choose those songs consciously because they were issued in 1984. But that struck me as interesting. And so I was thinking back on 1984 and and what other records came out that year, and I've just found a list of things and made a list of records from that year. And it's just extraordinary that looking back at that time, and it's more momentous to me as a music lover, and that there's been other years that were great or... there's still great music and I'm not noticing it. But just go back to that list and you'll see "Purple Rain" by Prince or "Like a Virgin" by Madonna. Of course Echo and the Bunnymen came out with "Ocean Rain," which is a great record. That song came from U2"Unforgettable Fire". And even"Pink Houses" by John Mellencamp came out that year. Yeah, Simple Minds, "Sparkle in the Rain." So many great records came out in 1984. So there's, there's some significance to that. And of course, like I said, I was it was my coming out. So maybe subconsciously, I grew into my independence when I got that driver's license that allowed me to go out and enjoy the pleasures of driving along to the radio. I think that was a big thing. Yeah, I can recall, the first time I really rocked out with the windows open, in my own car was was "Let's Dance" by David Bowie. I heard that on the radio. And I was just surprised that I didn't cause an accident or have an accident, I was just so psyched up driving to that song.

Aaron Gobler: 36:12

It's easy to just kind of break music down into decades. But you know, your remark about 1984 is, you know, you could go through the Billboard Top 100 lists from each of the years within a decade, and there certainly are some standout years, and I'm not sure what was... something was in the water that year, or something was going on politically, or just, you know, who knows?

David Toman: 36:36

Well, I think possibly it, it could even come from the record industry was just allowing those records to get out and was taking more chances. Because there it was a profitable industry at the time. And so they were just and I don't think we can overlook the impact of MTV at that time, because you had video to support your music at the time. And so yeah, everyone is making a video is getting on MTV. And for Americans as an audience, we saw really like a "British Invasion" and a second "British Invasion" with the music videos. And I think a lot of... there must have been like a budget thing that fed into to that because there are a lot of really, there's a lot of great music that came out that maybe there were a bit of one hit wonders and that sort of thing as well. But it was allowed to, to blossom at that time.

Aaron Gobler: 37:36

Yeah. Well, David, this has been a lot of fun. And I want to thank you again for taking time to be on the show. I had a great time. And I hope you enjoyed yourself too.

David Toman: 37:43

I had a great time. Thank you for letting me talk about one of my favorite things in the world, music.

Aaron Gobler: 37:52

Great. It's my pleasure, it's my pleasure. And to my listeners if you want to be part of the show, start by going to our website, Aaron's Radio dot show and clicking on the My Three Songs button on the homepage. You can also sign up for our mailing list so you'll know immediately when a new episode is available. You can also find Aaron's Radio Show on your favorite podcast service, but the podcast episodes only include interviews and no licensed music. And Aaron's radio show is now live on the amp app. Check out the Amp page on our website Aaron's Radio dot show to see the live show schedule and to learn how to listen to and interact with the show on your iPhone or iPad. So until next time, keep your ears and mind open and let more music into your world.

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