Jake: 0:09

Coming to you almost live from Berkeley, California, it's Aaron's Radio Show with your host, Aaron Gobler.

Aaron Gobler: 0:19

Thanks, Jake. And welcome, everybody to Episode 66. Welcome to My Three Songs where I play three special songs chosen by my guest, and we talk about why they chose each song. Today, my guest is Lynda Kraar. Lynda is musician currently living in Toronto. She performs live shows and she is also involved with several nonprofit organizations. Welcome to the show, Lynda, how are you today?

Lynda Kraar: 1:12

Hi, Aaron. I'm grateful for every day. I just don't know how else to be. Thank you for having me on your show. I'm a big fan.

Aaron Gobler: 1:21

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate you taking time to be on the show. And I'm delighted that you are such a fan of the show. Most people are not as effusive as you about the show. It's nice to hear someone who I can maybe considered a groupie in some way.

Lynda Kraar: 1:37

Indeed.

Aaron Gobler: 1:39

So Lynda, my introduction was very light on details. Can you fill us in on the variety of projects you're part of right now?

Lynda Kraar: 1:45

Oh, sure. I have a band called The Mid-Century Modernes. We chose that name. Actually, it's the Mid-Century Modernes. And that is a shout-out to guitar geeks and vintage instrument afficionados. Those who will know that the Moderne was the mythical guitar that was never manufactured by the Gibson company in the same era as the Flying V. Okay, so the Mid-Century Modernes performs what I guess is known as classic rock. I just didn't find it a good moniker. And after having studied music history, I know how it is when it looks back. And I see that mid-century modern is a thing. It's a thing in furniture, it's probably the furniture and the way people lived their lives. In the moment that they were creating classic rock. So I thought it was a suitable name. So we have the Mid-Century Modernes in Toronto. We have The Palisades All-Star Revue in Rockland County, New York, and also in Bergen County, New Jersey, it's mostly where we do that group. It's it's a super group, and a lot of fun. I play bass with a combo in Toronto called the Original Pairs, we have a show coming up, I play bass in that combo, plus, whatever, whatever anybody wants. If somebody needs some music, they reach out to me. And I'm usually able to schedule them in.

Aaron Gobler: 3:08

Oh, so you're really not doing much with your time at all. It's just kind of like sitting around.

Lynda Kraar: 3:12

A lot of bon-bons, a lot of Netflix.

Aaron Gobler: 3:14

(Laughter). That's really fantastic. And then like during the pandemic, what was like for you like, you know, when everything kind of went upside down.

Lynda Kraar: 3:24

It's such a fascinating time, I actually spent a lot of time reading books and doing audio books about pandemics. And I studied the phenomenon of what happens in the financial sector during pandemics. Like we had eight of them, let's say in the last 100 years, and how it affects the financial markets. And that's what drives fear. So people become fearful. So when people are fearful or don't know what's going on, it's probably the most creative time in the arts, performing arts, music. So it's kind of an inspiring time, if you can keep your wits about you and just keep going and just keep creating.

Aaron Gobler: 4:11

That's fascinating that those two things could happen... are happening at the same time. Do you see a connection? Like between the financial and the and the creation aspect?

Lynda Kraar: 4:20

Yeah. So what happened was, immediately once everybody realized that the pandemic was a thing, and everybody had to stay home, and they really in that moment, we don't remember this anymore. We forgot how terrifying it was that we didn't know what was happening. And there was no vaccine and, you know, vaccines... the epidemiologists are always working on vaccines, but the laypeople, they do not get that information. In other words, it doesn't trickle down to them. So what happens is the market started to go crazy. People lost a lot of money, and then everything seemed to be okay. And then the markets went up and everybody was in this kind of euphoria. Then once we started to normalize again, the supply chain started to melt down. And in that moment there became this huge inflation around the world. And people became fearful again. So I think, you know, and a lot of people lost their jobs. And then after the pandemic, people said, you know, not so bad, if they were 55-plus, they said, I'm not really sure I want to go back to work. So we had this great resignation. So the world is, you know, when we look in the rearview mirror, it's way easier to say how it was. But in the moment, we can't forget how fearful it was, you know, how fearful we were and how terrifying it was to live through that.

Aaron Gobler: 5:46

Yeah, I think it's also human nature to try to push stuff that's painful out of our minds. We don't want to re-experience, like you said, so much of the, you know, just not knowing what was next or how soon something was gonna come in and save the day?

Lynda Kraar: 6:05

Sure, sure. I think the one platform that made out okay, on all of this was Zoom. Before the world imploded, Zoom was a thing, a lot of people didn't like it. They would prefer to go to meetings in person. They didn't even think about sitting at a computer. They thought it was just a cheap way to do things in a cheap way. And now it became a thing and it's clear that it's not going away, that it became a very useful tool to connect people. So when used properly, you know?

Aaron Gobler: 6:36

Yeah, yeah.

Lynda Kraar: 6:37

And they seem to have been a benevolent entity, not like a war profiteer. So...

Aaron Gobler: 6:43

Yeah, uh-huh, yeah.

Lynda Kraar: 6:44

I was even on one of their calls internally, just to... they're trying to figure out new ways to expand because there was such a demand for their product, the only thing they never really managed was the two people talking over each other. So that, you know, that latency issue also kind of extended to musicians who were just desperate, desperate to play music together. So there were some platforms that did evolve. And that did sort of give a semblance of the ability for musicians to jam together within, you had to be within a certain region, you couldn't do it with somebody, let's say if you're in in the Bay Area, and to do it with somebody in Australia, you're never going to do it. But you could certainly do it with somebody in Seattle, with a very little bit of latency. So yeah, even that evolves. So then there were all these, you know, you asked me about what I was doing during the pandemic? Well, part of it was a lot of musical Zooms, where there were a lot of open mics and, and songwriters workshops and singing. And what it really ended up being was everybody would hit their mute button, except the person that was doing the singing and you were able nicely to sing along, and it was better than nothing. That's it.

Aaron Gobler: 8:02

Yeah. I'm part of a ukulele class. And so yeah, it you know, we all have to mute and, you know, and then one person performs and the teacher comes back on and says... or the teacher will be on with her mic open but not saying anything, but then it's assisting as they need. Yeah. So it's, it definitely still has that issue about the syncopation in playing music. So...

Lynda Kraar: 8:25

But better than nothing, like I say, you know?

Aaron Gobler: 8:27

Yeah, no it's really connected. A lot of artists were able to do you know, shows in an empty theater over Zoom. And like that, like you were there. Yeah. It was a good salve. It wasn't perfect. But it was, there's been times you know, the good is better than the perfect. So Lynda, I'm so glad you offered to be a guest. And I said that earlier, but I want to reiterate that I believe you were inspired to be on the show by a previous guest, and your friend Howard Feinberg. Now, he in turn was inspired by previous guests, Susan Kohn, who was inspired by previous guests, Christine Lavin, I mean, it's quite a network. It's kind of like a giving tree. But what specifically inspired you to be on the show?

Lynda Kraar: 9:02

Well, I heard Howard's segment with you. So I got the opportunity to hear Howard speaking very familiarly with somebody that I didn't know. So first of all, because you as a host, you really do coax the best out of your guests. That's number one. Okay, so I was able to have that here, you know, kind of benefit and experience this intimate conversation with somebody that I knew with you. And I just thought that was really remarkable. Howard is such a thoughtful person, and he's so deeply immersed in music, and I don't think I really understood that at his core, he's a musician. He's a healer who goes out into the world and makes it a better place. It's remarkable.

Aaron Gobler: 9:49

Thank you for your thoughts on how I interact with the guests. Each guest has their own kind of magic somewhere in there. And then I leave the interview feeling a certain... you know I really feel like I get to know that person, just from how they talk about music. And I actually have been told by some guests that it's, they don't use the word therapy, but they will say to me that they feel like, they tell me afterwards, Wow, I'm like so jazzed up right now, or whatever. There's something about, I have discovered that music can be a very personal thing to some people. And they may feel like they may be embarrassed to talk about their music choices with somebody, or they may feel like boring people, when they talk about how passionate they are. Anybody who's passionate about something can talk someone else's ear off. And so in this venue, in this conversation, they can just kind of geek out or wonk out on whatever. And I feel like that's kind of freeing or rewarding, in some sense.

Lynda Kraar: 10:48

Oh, for sure. Liberating, really. Yeah.

Aaron Gobler: 10:50

Yeah. Yeah, so I'm really eager to have our conversation about your songs. But I do want to ask you, most of my guests have been friends, relatives, friends, of friends, etc. But I've had a few people on who their profession, their vocation is music. They are musicians. So I wanted to ask you a question. As a musician, I understand that you've been involved with music for much of your life. But what point at what point in your life did it become a central profession?

Lynda Kraar: 11:19

Without making it too long. I don't want to have to send you a tube of Krazy Glue to glue your ear back on your head. But music really was always the calling for me. And I don't really remember a time when it wasn't front and center for me. Music was very important to my parents. And my dad's whole family, whoever is left after the Holocaust, and whoever came to the States beforehand, they're all musicians. My mother's sister played in a mandolin orchestra, my mother played in a mandolin orchestra in Poland in the old country. So music was always around. So when I was 10, my dad got me a Raven guitar. And so it's a brand that's very much like the Stella which is the stereotypical first guitar of a lot of musicians. And about a year or two later, I restrung it once I discovered a thing called steel strings, I restrung it. I got a capo. And that really like, blew the barn doors open for me and just set me on this path to play guitar. So by the time I was 17, I joined the Musicians Union in Toronto. And I played music full time until the birth of my eldest daughter. And in between I had gone to Israel, and I settled in New Jersey, and I never stopped working as a musician.

Aaron Gobler: 12:36

So from 17 on is what you're saying, right?

Lynda Kraar: 12:38

Yeah. When I joined the Union, yeah, like I knew before that, but you know, I was very, very fortunate to to know that this is what I needed to do.

Aaron Gobler: 12:48

And you've, you've never looked back. And you've never thought, well, wow, I could have spent all this time doing some other craft?

Lynda Kraar: 12:54

Well, it's very interesting, you know, you have to eventually make a trade-off and take time out. Some people do, to raise a family. So I've had many conversations with other female musicians, very successful, very high level, who really took time out to have their babies and to raise their families. So I did that. And I'm not sorry that I did it. And I used the time that I had in between to just keep learning and never stop playing or sharing music. So I think in a way I exposed my kids to music also. So I have one daughter, who really is a bit of an ethnomusicologist in her own right. And my other daughter, just a tremendous vocalist who studied for six or seven years. I did pay it forward, so...

Aaron Gobler: 13:45

Yeah, oh, that's wonderful. And thank you, you know, as a, as a musician, you are naturally a creator, that each time you pick up your instrument and start playing, you're creating something, and thank you to you and all the other music creators out there, it's an art and it has to... it just keeps evolving. And even if we're playing songs that have been around forever. We're adding our own personality to them. So thank you for for dedicating yourself to that.

Lynda Kraar: 14:13

Well, thank you for providing the opportunity to do this. It's really appreciated.

Aaron Gobler: 14:18

It's my pleasure, I, I really enjoy doing this. I think I didn't enjoy trying to strong arm or persuade people to be guests. And so I'm in a mode now where people come forward to me and say they want to be on the show. Then I record a show. And I really look forward to that. So it's just a lot more fun just having people ask to be on the show.

Lynda Kraar: 14:37

Oh, that's great.

Aaron Gobler: 14:38

I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. So Lynda, of course, today we're here to listen to three songs and talk about them and how meaningful they are to you and your life. So let's jump into the songs. The songs you chose were "City of New Orleans" by Steve Goodman from 1975."Caldonia" by Louis Jordan and the Tympany Five from 1945. And"Twist and Shout" by The Top Notes from way back in 1961. Now I'm eager for us to listen to these songs together and to discuss the significance of each of the songs to you. Let's jump into the first song "City of New Orleans" by Steve Goodman.

Aaron Gobler.: 15:24

Lynda, I've heard this song so many times in my life. But I had never heard the original by Steve Goodman. And, you know, I want to thank you for introducing me to this version. And the fact that it was written by Steve Goodman and not Willie Nelson, or Arlo Guthrie, I never would have ever known that. So what inspired you to include this song on your list?

Lynda Kraar: 15:41

Well, where can I start? This is the first song I learned on guitar as a young teenager that had more than three chords. And I might have mentioned as a child of Holocaust survivors living in Toronto, this song opened my eyes to the universe of American history, and the world beyond my microcosm in Toronto, and it really awakened my inner wanderlust. And anyone who knows me knows that I definitely got that gene from my mother. And the song completely played into that. And how I found the song was when I was a young teen, I was watching public television with my mom. And Laurie Lieberman was the guest. And she played a few songs on the piano, very nice. And then Steve Goodman was introduced, and he was this very short little guy, very petite. And he just got up on that stage, beaming, and started to play. And I felt my eyes sink into the back of my head. It was like, Oh, my God, this is it. This is my life.

Aaron Gobler: 16:47

Aha moment, like, the vibration... the resonation, the vibration was like, right, matching you at that moment?

Lynda Kraar: 16:54

Yeah. Like this is it. This is it. Yeah, that's, you know, the first thing I did was I just ran back to the guitar, you know, there was no YouTube back then. Right? You had to do everything from memory. And I just tried to reproduce what I saw. And I bought that album. It was I think it was the first album Steve Goodman was the album.

Aaron Gobler: 17:15

Yeah, yeah.

Lynda Kraar: 17:17

And I mean, the people who were on that record, it's astounding when you really stop and think about it. You know, John Prine sang on that record. Bob Dylan was on that record. Kris Kristofferson and Norbert Putnam, were on that, were producing that record, you know, the who's who that created this record, which was a flop financially, but it was a critically acclaimed record with everybody who was anybody at ground zero in the music business, especially from Nashville at that time.

Aaron Gobler: 17:49

Yeah, the regular person on the street would have like, they might say, oh, yeah, I've heard that song before. Yeah, it's a beautiful song and stuff but not associated with Steve Goodman. So it makes me think that it's kind of like a not a Rorschach test, but like, you know, a litmus test or whatever. If you mentioned Steve Goodman, to somebody in a conversation, whether or not they know who he is, indicates like their knowledge of music history.

Lynda Kraar: 18:13

That's right. Like when he got started, just a quick side story. When he got started in Chicago, he was part of a little trio of guys who were best friends. And it was Steve Goodman, John Prine, and Jimmy Buffett. So I think had Steve lived, he died in 1984 of leukemia, had he lived, he would have been up there also. With the rest of them, without a doubt.

Aaron Gobler: 18:38

Yeah. That's an interesting trio. I always think of Jimmy Buffett, I'm learning more about Jimmy Buffett, I've heard some other songs by him through some guests on the show. But you know, I just pigeonhole him as this kind of party guy, you know, but he's quite a poet. Yeah. That's interesting. All these combinations of people. And then also, like, we can always just wonder what would have, you know, what would Prince or Michael Jackson or Amy Winehouse or Jimi Hendrix or, you know, Big Bopper? All these people, right? Yeah, would they still be creating? You know, what could they still be creating? Now? Look at like Paul McCartney. He's still creating stuff. And what could they... what would have been if these people had continued? So that's a shame that he passed in his prime.

Lynda Kraar: 19:29

Yeah, yes. Yeah. I think he, you know, he was always unwell. And he always knew it was going to be an early demise for him. So, unfortunately, yeah. But you know, the legacy is simply Legion.

Aaron Gobler: 19:45

Yeah. People will continue to talk about him and continue to listen to his music. So he will live on, perpetually.

Lynda Kraar: 19:52

Oh for sure, yeah, for sure.

Aaron Gobler: 19:53

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Lynda, thanks for the conversation about that song. And thank you again for introducing me to it. And now I have more in my music trivia treasure chest in my brain about this particular song.

Lynda Kraar: 20:07

Sure. And Steve is always a good go-to, when you're looking for something to listen to, to really dig into something hearty. It would be Steve.

Aaron Gobler: 20:16

Right. Yeah, I will keep that in mind. Lynda, the next song on your list is"Caldonia" by Louis Jordan and the Tympany Five. Let's give that a listen. And we'll talk about it on the other side.

Aaron Gobler.: 20:29

Lynda, I don't even know where to start after listening to this tune. It's, it's a great tune. And and it's really fascinating to me on a lot of different levels. You know, I never, I never actually considered the genre called jump blues, which is how this is described. There's so much energy and joy in the song. And each time I listen to it, I hear some other kind of thing like, like "Lucille" by Fats Domino. And like, even like this is from 1945 and "Lucille" or not"Lucille," but "Ain't That a Shame" came out in 1956. So we're talking like 12 years later, this seems like, I don't know, a lot of the music from 1945. It sounds like it might have been kind of revolutionary, and in some ways, but it also in my mind... I'm always fascinated at when genres kind of move or synthesize or whatever into the next kind of sound. And like listening to "Rock Around the Clock," for example, sounds to me, as somebody who's you know, who was not even born in or was not around in the 50s. You know, that like "Rock Around the Clock" sounds like this kind of like, middle zone between big band sound and the Rock and Roll sound. And I feel like this song, I don't think there's a lot of instrumentation in it. But with the horns and the piano, I feel like it's, it's kind of like moving from just a band, piano, horns kind of sound, into a more bopping Rock and Roll sound. So that's just me. I feel like a layman in a lot of ways about like, this is just how it kind of vibrates with me, but I could be like, someone who is a true musician might be like, this sounds very oversimplified, but whatever, I'll stop yapping. And I, I got my piece out. Now you tell me why is this tune in your list?

Lynda Kraar: 22:32

So first of all, I'm gonna have to tell you that your sleuthing is really excellent. And a lot of what you heard. Again, if you look in the in the Wayback Machine, you'll see that Little Richard was influenced by Louis Jordan, and the work he was doing with the Tympany Five, and there were nine of them. There weren't five of them, there were eight or nine of them at any time. So yeah, there was that moment when music was really evolving. And these records were coming out. And you know, we could do a whole other segment another time on race records and how that evolution happened. And, you know, listeners can go and do little research and find out about the phenomenon of the race records. But the fact of the matter is that these big bands, were all having conversations, whether it was with Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys, who basically were kind of the prominent, it was a time of great melting pot. So I just mentioned Bob Wills, because Texas Playboys, which was basically a fiddle band in Texas, dance band, much the same way that the Tympany Five and on the east coast was a dance band for specific audience. But Bob Wills is a Texas swing band comprised a lot of Polish polka music for the poles that came to Texas and settled there with their accordions. So there were many, many Polka bands in Texas. And that combination of very danceable electrifying music. So the same thing was happening with Louis Jordan. Electrifying songs. Why is it important to me? Well, the first time I heard it, I lost my mind. I you know, I think I took it out of the library, you know, the double best of collection of Louis Jordan and that thing, I, I took it out of the library, I took it home, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I found a copy in a record store and I literally wore the grooves off of this record, learning to play all these songs and decided, gee, do I really want to play piano? Am I gonna stick with guitar? That sax sounds so good that alto sax, his, you know, musicality. He was so musical and just so tasty in everything that he did. So, for me, I can't say enough about it only to say I have been performing the song since I was 17. And I am still, hell bent on playing it. It's still in my repertoire 49 years later. And it's like I say it's electrifying and it is absolutely contagious. And it has that youthful perspective, you know, and it's like a potato chip that song, you just can't have one. You know, you have to keep consuming, the songs are so delicious. So, other than that, the songs that I'm presenting too, because that's quite a lot of material right there. I've already told you listeners go out and do some investigation on what race records were and the history race records, okay. Other than that, the songs I'm presenting to you today are just rife with struggle. So that is to say that the nature of the music business is a path of heartbreak and disappointment, poaching lawsuits, and a lot of elbowing to get to the top of the pile. So let's see. So for example, "Caldonia," was credited to Fleecie Moore she was... she had been Louis Jordan's wife, she got writing credits for other famous songs that he recorded. Like "Beware Brother Beware," "Buzz Me," "Let the Good Times Roll," famous one, "Salt Pork West Virginia." And they were really important hits in their day. Again, it's they're all in that bag of crispy delicious potato chips, where you will also find"Caldonia" and cut by many artists. And it's arguable that Louis Jordan probably wrote or co-wrote many of the songs that didn't get credit.

Aaron Gobler: 26:31

You say you perform the song? You're playing bass on the song?

Lynda Kraar: 26:35

No, I play guitar. Usually on this song. I play guitar.

Aaron Gobler: 26:38

Well, and so who's singing?

Lynda Kraar: 26:41

I sing and yeah, I'll be happy to perform it some time for you. I combine it with another song that Louis Jordan did called "I Want You To Be My Baby". A lot of lyrics and it's like, breakneck speed. And it's just a really wonderful thing. Oh, one other thing I want to mention about Louis Jordan. So Louis Jordan in the 50s, it might have been in the 60s. I can't remember if late 50s early 60s I had a gig at the Concord Tavern in Toronto. It's today, the most famous music store in Canada Long and McQuade's occupies that space where the tavern used to be. So my very first gig with my band, Lynda Marks and the Marksman, our first ever gig in Toronto, when I was a kid, was at the Concord tavern. And I would later find out that is the place where Louis Jordan performed in Canada. So I you know, so the first song that we did, we were going to close with that we opened with "Caldonia." Yeah, and we had a sax player in the band. So you know, we were able to pull off a really nice version of that was really my big break, you know, into the Toronto music scene with my band as a young pup.

Aaron Gobler: 27:54

That's neat, very, very fitting location. And then you just mentioned you know, you said saxophonist that just popped into my mind just how, how does one horn in a band in a song can make the whole, it really can make a huge difference. It's remarkable how maybe because it just sounds, it's in a register that's so much different than everything else that's being played. It's like icing on the cake.

Lynda Kraar: 28:19

Yeah, there were many horn players in the Tympany Five. So okay, you know saxes, and trumpets, and everybody had a role, you know, and Louie basically just always stepped forward and took the Alto lead line, which is the most melodic, the one that makes you want to dance and go crazy. And then everybody else had a chance to solo you know, so that kind of ushered in, you know, the era of how we get to electric guitar guys in the late 50s, rockabilly early rock and roll, and suddenly a guy on a guitar becomes something special. You know, Eddie Cochran became became the guy when he was doing"Summertime Blues." He got out there with a guitar fronting. You know, so, Louis Jordan did the same sort of the same kind of purposes, the frontman with the lead instrument, telling telling his story. Yeah.

Aaron Gobler: 29:11

Yeah. And then the name Tympany Five. I mean, a tympany is is like a drum like sound. So is that... you think that was significant to the you know, there was a significance there?

Lynda Kraar: 29:23

None. Zero.

Aaron Gobler: 29:24

No?

Lynda Kraar: 29:24

No. Zero. Zero. Yeah.

Aaron Gobler: 29:26

The Tympany Five. Yeah. Great. Great. Well, Lynda, thank you again for introducing me to that song. I, I confess, I don't go out and seek new music. I have been very involved on the Amp platform, which is something through Amazon. I've been doing a lot of listening. I do some creating but mostly listening and that's where I'm being exposed to songs that I hadn't heard before. But then my three songs format, I mean, I've now had over 125 songs I think or so that have been included in the show. There are plenty of them that I'm very familiar with and there's a lot that I'm so glad that I've been exposed to. And so thank you for introducing me to this particular song.

Lynda Kraar: 30:06

My pleasure. And by the way, just to all of the Canadians out there listening Amp is apparently coming to Canada. Soon. It's not currently available.

Aaron Gobler: 30:16

I see. Well, that's great, because I'm just loving it. I've been on about five weeks now. And I really, if you have, you need an iPhone or an iPad in order to actually interact with it. But if you have a web browser, which I'm assuming everybody does, you can listen to a selection of shows through your web browser, wherever you are. So I could talk about Amp for a long time. But so Lynda, the last song on your list is "Twist and Shout" performed by The Top Notes. Let's take a listen.

Aaron Gobler.: 30:49

Lynda, this is a gem and thank you so much for for including it. And I never would have known this tune existed unless I had done some like, unless I got really fascinated with the song itself and did some research because Wikipedia is just amazing, amazing resource, right? You know, I'm guessing most listeners are keenly aware of The Beatles version, especially even if they're younger, and they saw like Ferris Bueller's Day Off. But but then the Isley Brothers version as well. I mean, this, this version is from 1961. It predates those, but I understand it was the first recorded version of the song. And then this is probably the third time just now listening to a third time or fourth time that I've heard it now because I listened to it several times. Once I saw it on your list.

Lynda Kraar: 31:43

You are to be commended, sir.

Aaron Gobler: 31:46

But now so this, you know, it's almost like staring or gazing at a piece of art in a museum. And each time you look at it, you go, well look at the colors of that. And look how this is. Right? So this time I'm listening to it and I'm hearing what's jumping out to me is, "Do You Love Me" by The Contours from 1962. And I just wonder if like that just the feel and the singing and the energy and some of the musicality of this version ... which is not in the the other versions that are more popular... screams like, "Do You Love Me" by The Contours from 1962. So I just have to wonder if they were inspired by this particular tune. So like, to the listeners, you know, go back and listen to the you know, this song and then then go listen to The Contours' song and see if you feel that same, the same kind of resonance there. So I'm really excited to hear your reasons why you included the song.

Lynda Kraar: 32:41

I am stomping in my stall waiting for you to ask me that. So thank you. First of all, you just, you can't have rock and roll unless you go deep into the sausage factory. And you just see what makes that sausage. So you're already on your journey. So, you know, kudos, this is the launching pad for so much that is rock and roll music. This is the song that Sir Paul McCartney often credits as The Beatles career launcher in the United States. So let me just back up and tell you a little bit about what you just heard. The song was co written by Bert Berns and another songwriter called Phil Medley.

Aaron Gobler: 33:24

Yes.

Lynda Kraar: 33:25

This version was produced by a very young Phil Spector who was asked to be the producer and Bert, who really is very hands-on producer and writer and wanted to be more involved in this production, just was pushed to the side and Phil did this. And that beautiful yackety sax that you hear on it. You know, we're talking about sax, King Curtis. So King Curtis is the guy who played with Aretha on "Respect." He's the guy that was on "Yakety Yak, Don't Talk Back." So, sax's way up front. If you listen very carefully, you'll hear a guitar. The guitar is actually Bucky Pizzarelli, the late great father of John Pizzarelli, the jazz guitarist, seven-string player. You have stellar personnel. But when it came out of the sausage factory, it just was not good. It's very lackluster, and it was not electrifying. And actually the truth... the proof was in the pudding because it actually failed to chart ... so in other words, it didn't make it to the charts. So a year later, Bert Berns who very much had it on his mind to create his own version of the song produced that very famous version with the Isley Brothers that went to the Billboard Top 20. And really, it was Burt's way of getting even with Phil Spector for the train wreck of The Top Notes. And a year after that when it was time for The Beatles machine, the institution of The Beatles to start considering coming to the states. This was one of the songs that they recorded. And they actually took it to the top five, and a very famous version of The Beatles that you can think of that very famous version with John screaming that we all know, it was a very long day in the studio and John had a cold. And there was one other take, and they went with the first take. And that's what you're hearing when you listen to the Beatles doing that song.

Aaron Gobler: 35:27

He really... yeah, he and then I guess even when they whenever they perform this, it would really take a toll on his voice.

Lynda Kraar: 35:34

So it always ended up being he called it a larynx killer. So that was usually the last song of the night because he just couldn't start with that. You know, who could? Right? Yeah.

Aaron Gobler: 35:44

It is very interesting listening to this version because it does sound... you had discussed with me earlier, this has a Latin kind of feel to it. It does does, it definitely has its own personality, its own feel. It feels like The Beatles and The Isley Brothers versions are more similar to each other than to this.

Lynda Kraar: 36:00

Yeah, that was that was on purpose. Yeah, that was on purpose. Because the British Invasion, the best thing to do was for them to give a tip-of-the-hat to American music, you know, again, you came in at a certain moment, and much has been discussed and written and presented on this, about the moment that they emerged on the scene in America and what made them famous actually. So that's a whole show in itself.

Aaron Gobler: 36:27

Yeah. Well, thank you again, Lynda, for introducing me to that song. And the conversation about it, it really is a lot of fun to, to kind of break apart a song or history of a song. And then like what it inspired others to do and, and how it's how that song has, like, you know, in this case, even if it hadn't been covered by other artists or redone, it is really a great song to listen to just, it's just a feast for the ears. So thank you, again, for including that on your list.

Lynda Kraar: 36:54

My pleasure. And really, it goes back to something that you said, Aaron, it's like standing in the Louvre and looking at the Mona Lisa. So you can stand on many angles, looking at the Mona Lisa to see something different. So, on one hand to say that it was covered by an artist is also to understand who produced it in that moment. And what the artist was doing there at that time, and how that producer became involved. And what led to that series, that chain of events that created that work of art. So in the same way, it's not even about covering a song because in that era, Western music was just less, you know, was less populated with music. You know, there were fewer options.

Aaron Gobler: 37:47

Yeah, it's very true.

Lynda Kraar: 37:49

Yeah, a little esoteric, but you know, that's art. Art is...

Aaron Gobler: 37:53

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So Lynda, is there anything else you'd like to share about your selections like things you may have thought of while we were listening to the songs or answers to questions? You know, I didn't put to you like, I did notice that all your songs were from '75 or earlier. So is there any significance there or just what else hadn't you said so far?

Lynda Kraar: 38:13

Thank you so much for asking. For me, really it was 1977. That was my big awakening because perhaps "City of New Orleans" came out earlier, but it wasn't on my radar until I was until around I would say '77. So as a kid who loved music, I was just completely drawn into "City of New Orleans" and my hands were finally big enough to manage an adult sized guitar fretboard. I want to say I met my many of my heroes and I have never been disappointed. Contrary to that hoary old adage about "never meet your heroes." It's not true. I've always been a backward glancer. I always looked at what came before. The fact is that the Western music scene, like I said, was much sparser, it was much less music. And the stuff that emerged was innovative and ambitious and big. So my mentor was Steve Goodman. And he started out as a jingle writer, and he wrote,"Maybelline, Maybelline means beautiful eyes." So, jingles and I'm still inspired knowing that, you know, Steve told me to listen and to get really good, I would have to learn to play everything I heard. So to him that meant Lynda, you have to play commercials, scores, radio, everything. I just forgot that. So I'm always I'm always humming something that I just heard and I'll go back to an instrument doesn't matter what instrument and try to reproduce it. You know, and that's ear training. That's the ear training part of the music, good music education. So something else I want to talk to you about "Twist and Shout," I mentioned that Bert Berns was the composer and then eventually came to produce the song that set the world on fire. So in the past five years, I've become close with Bert's children, Cassie and Brett Berns. And I will just want to tell the listeners they produced a documentary about their father called "Bang! The Bert Berns Story." And "Bang!" stands for the initials of the people that were involved in his record company. So the Berns children are actually working on other projects to make sure their father gets the recognition that he deserves, including a Broadway show, including a screenplay, which is complete, I'm not really at liberty to give you the details, but it's phenomenal, it will be widely available to the world. And there's also a movement afoot to have him installed in Songwriters Hall of Fame where he belongs and just hasn't been there. The third thing, Louis Jordan is just magical, his music was incredible. We have the capability now thanks to technology, nobody knows that better than you to get that music out to people let people hear that music. It's part of my DNA. And I love sharing it because every time I hear his music, it's as though Louis Jordan is playing this for me, for the first time to somebody who's never heard it before. And that Aaron, is the essence of rock'n'roll. In performance class, you're always taught, tell your story, as if you're telling it for the first time to people who've never heard it before. Doesn't matter how much they know it, you have to tell it as if nobody's ever heard it before. It's so exciting. It's exciting to you to transmit that to somebody that's never heard it. And again, from the from the thousands of years old doctrine and ethos about music, we're musicians, we're the healers, and magicians. Our job is to elevate people. And it doesn't matter if you're telling a sad story, if you're singing a song, that's a dirge, that's a tragic song, in the telling, you're connecting with humanity, and letting them feel better about their own experience that they may have with that, I'd love to hear you know, after this airs, you know what people had to say about this music if you've never heard it before. And hopefully it's going to give the listeners and your growing audiences an opportunity to feel inspired to go and listen. I will say this, there are music educators out there, there are some who become very famous. And one of them I just wanted to point out is Rick Beato, B-E-A-T-O, who has three and-a-half million subscribers on YouTube. And he always tells a great story about and really dives deep into music, how it was made, who made it, how this came about. And for people who are musicians to also understand some theory. So that they don't have to just be passive in the pursuit of experiencing music.

Aaron Gobler: 43:03

Yeah, no, I'm one of those several million people. I've been following his YouTube for a long time. And, and especially where he breaks down why certain songs are like, amazing, right? Or, you know, yeah, it's really very, very educational, and really exciting to watch.

Lynda Kraar: 43:22

A wonderful guy, you know, I think the last one that he just did was with David Bendeth, the record producer, who's also a Torontonian, and like a brother to me, and Rick has become a friend. And I, you know, it's just really nice to have a community of people that care about constantly examining this music and understanding so that we can also embrace music in the future. It's not always about the music, the people that were the spokesman for our own generations. But when you look forward to future musicians who are going to be the spokesman for generations to come, just to make sure that we're all still connected to each other and that we don't devolve into something that kind of diminishes the art form and the aspect of making the music.

Aaron Gobler: 44:11

Yeah, no, I hear you. Yeah, it's very, it's so important to stay connected to that, and that the music will continue to be rich. If people are really paying homage to the original creators or the musical ancestors.

Lynda Kraar: 44:26

I believe that's true. Absolutely. Yeah. So really, thanks for giving a platform and a voice to to this ethos, because otherwise, you know, art is always kind of being threatened with being cut. So.

Aaron Gobler: 44:42

Yeah, it is such an important thing to humankind, art, whatever art form it is. And I agree that it often can be the thing that people say they don't need or it's a useless or something, but, but we always have to be supporting it. So I certainly appreciate that.

Lynda Kraar: 45:00

Yeah. So I applaud you really for what you're doing. Yeah. And you do a good job at it.

Aaron Gobler: 45:07

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you for again, like for your contribution to the music world. Lynda, I want to thank you again so much. I had a lot of fun. You're just like a font of creativity and energy, and I really hope you enjoyed yourself too.

Lynda Kraar: 45:23

Oh, I love it. I'm just I'm really happy to be here. Like I say grateful for every day, you know, just gotta be that way. So and thank you so much again for everything and really special thanks to Howie. For yeah, for introducing me to you, you know, to your show,

Aaron Gobler: 45:42

Right. Yes, shout out to Howard Feinberg and, and Susan Kohn and Christine Lavin, Christine Lavin, her interview really added a really like a jolt to to the show in terms of getting listeners and more guests. So I am eternally thankful to Christine Lavin.

Lynda Kraar: 46:02

Christine Lavin is a goddess from time to time at the Greenwich Village Folk Festival. On Facebook. Once in a while, she hops on and it's just I mean, she's a goddess. That's all she's she's the it girl.

Aaron Gobler: 46:17

And I had my guest Gary Zenker to thank for emailing Christine Lavin letting her know that he mentioned her song. It's just it's remarkable how one gesture like Gary, did you never know what one gesture like that what it's going to kind of spark that spark is going to start a fire in a certain way. So I, I just have such appreciation for and then and Christine is so generous with connecting people that this is just all it's just all really wonderful and perpetuates, giving and love and yeah, it's all good cycle.

Lynda Kraar: 46:52

Oh, that's great.

Aaron Gobler: 46:53

Thank you again, Lynda. And I want to say to my listeners if you want to be part of the show, start by going to our website, Aaron's Radio dot show and clicking on the My Three Songs button on the homepage. You can also sign up for our mailing lists, so you'll know immediately when a new episode is available. You can also find Aaron's Radio Show on your favorite podcast service. But the podcast episodes only include interviews and no license music. And Aaron's Radio Show is now live on the amp app. Check out the app page on our website, Aaron's Radio dot show to see the live show schedule and learn how to listen to and interact with a show on your iPhone or iPad. And I just learned it's coming to Canada soon. (In Canadian accent) So eh? Get out of your house. Find out what it's all about.

Lynda Kraar: 47:36

Yeah, ha ha.

Aaron Gobler: 47:38

No. Okay, I'm sorry.

Lynda Kraar: 47:39

I liked it.

Aaron Gobler: 47:40

Okay, so until next time, keep your ears and mind open and let more music into your world.

Female voice: 48:02

You're listening to Aaron's Radio Show.